2017 FORMULA 1 AZERBAIJAN GRAND PRIX - Grand Prix Weekend Thread

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

So sick of drs...

Agreed.

[steve nielsen]

Max seems to have all the bad luck and Daniel all the luck the last races.........

[Ospi]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Williams to Stroll - "we need green sectors every lap."

Not how I'd manage this one. Turn the radio off, don't let him know where the others are, and let him drive.

He's not been coping well with pressure so far, so why potentially knock his confidence by adding more?

He can't be babied his whole career. He's in F1 and needs to learn quickly to deal with pressure.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Ospi

He can't be babied his whole career. He's in F1 and needs to learn quickly to deal with pressure.

His whole career? This is only his 8th F1 GP.

[bella]

engineers are like therapists when it comes to extracting the best from their driver. if their driver responds to a bit of abuse they'll give it, if they need to be gently reminded that they're in a race they'll do that.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by bella

engineers are like therapists when it comes to extracting the best from their driver. if their driver responds to a bit of abuse they'll give it, if they need to be gently reminded that they're in a race they'll do that.

Yeah. I don't think telling someone who is bad under pressure "We need green sectors" is really the best way. There's been a few cases of Williams not quite managing Stroll that well this year. Could say Stroll should be good enough to not need some of the help he's needed, but then again Williams would've known this so some of it has been a bit surprising.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by maximus

Except Lewis didn't brake, Vettel was driving up his backside trying to get the jump and was caught out by Lewis backing the pack up. Moronic behaviour from Seb.

Exactly. I think too many people want to believe Lewis behaved badly there. For what happened afterwards, I'd have thrown Vettel out of the race - 10 second penalty? A joke.

[gert]

The part after the red flag was worth watching, the part before wasn't.

I'm disappointed Hamilton got away with his contribution to bad driving standards, and only Vettel was punished.

In a way, that loose headrest made up for it.

Still, an equal punishment as Vettel's and no headrest problem would probably have produced the same result but that would have been more 'just' IMO.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Exactly. I think too many people want to believe Lewis behaved badly there. For what happened afterwards, I'd have thrown Vettel out of the race - 10 second penalty? A joke.

I don't think what they was equal (and I think a 10 second penalty is no where near harsh enough for Vettel), but I don't think Lewis was particularly innocent. Slowing down on a corner exit? What do you think will happen when you slow down in an acceleration zone?

All the drivers are guilty of it, not just Lewis. They're all terrible at maintaining a decent constant speed under SC. Seems to be that outside of ACO series, the idea of maintaining a constant speed under SC is not a concept that anyone bothers enforcing.

Toto Wolff having a right go at Ted K right now. Not sure why. Ted asked how the headrest issue happened and Toto is standing with his face like a slapped arse, saying he's not going to let Ted blame someone for it. Chill out there Toto - you got a podium and gapped Ferrari in the Constructors Championship

[bella]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Yeah. I don't think telling someone who is bad under pressure "We need green sectors" is really the best way. There's been a few cases of Williams not quite managing Stroll that well this year. Could say Stroll should be good enough to not need some of the help he's needed, but then again Williams would've known this so some of it has been a bit surprising.

but "we need green sectors" was a very good way of putting it. the reality was that bottas was closing at a rate that meant that he was almost certainly going to take his second position. how on earth do you tell a driver he needs to keep the pace up in a more delicate way? not a rhetorical question.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Why does the lead car dictate the pace? It should be the SC, then there wouldn't be an issue.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I don't think what they was equal (and I think a 10 second penalty is no where near harsh enough for Vettel), but I don't think Lewis was particularly innocent. Slowing down on a corner exit? What do you think will happen when you slow down in an acceleration zone?

I confess I saw little wrong - but then I didn't have the advantage of seeing the telemetry that others have apparently seen. Some say he braked - I didn't see that. Now it's said that he slowed down - presumably that's just lifting slightly.... They all knew they were about to go green and Vettel knew that Hamilton had the control of that situation. There was no brake testing there - if there had been, I'd be pretty critical of Hamilton. Vettel's retaliation afterwards (and it can be called nothing less), was utterly disgraceful, as were his rather pathetic comments on the radio asking what his penalty was for. I don't consider myself a Hamilton fan as such, however I do intensely dislike the criticism he gets for things that if they were done by others would be pretty much ignored....

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by bella

but "we need green sectors" was a very good way of putting it. the reality was that bottas was closing at a rate that meant that he was almost certainly going to take his second position. how on earth do you tell a driver he needs to keep the pace up in a more delicate way? not a rhetorical question.

You could give him a lap time to hit, rather than say "Green sectors". But the question for me is whether or not they needed to pick up the pace. Is there a huge difference between 2nd and 3rd? I mean obviously there is a handful of points involved, but are you going to risk a podium (that's been gifted to you in circumstances that are unlikely to repeat themselves), to get a slightly better podium?

Given the circumstances I'd probably have left Stroll to it, or clarified a lap time. With any other driver, fair enough, but Stroll has required a bit more help than others have (which Williams are well aware of), and at times there's mixed messages.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I confess I saw little wrong - but then I didn't have the advantage of seeing the telemetry that others have apparently seen. Some say be braked - I didn't see that. Now it's said that he slowed down - presumably that's just lifting slightly.... They all knew they were about to go green and Vettel knew that Hamilton had the control of that situation. There was no brake testing there - if there had been, I'd be pretty critical of Hamilton. Vettel's retaliation afterwards (and it can be called nothing less), was utterly disgraceful, as were his rather pathetic comments on the radio asking what his penalty was for. I don't consider myself a Hamilton fan as such, however I do intensely dislike the criticism he gets for things that if they were done by others would be pretty much ignored....

Even if you hold speed. Staying at a low speed when you're in an acceleration zone...what exactly is expected? And was it different to when Lewis last did the restart? Remember he almost overtook the SC from going too early in the earlier SC, so did he adjust where he slowed down?

All of this can be solved by actually having drivers maintain a constant speed like some endurance races do, rather than have this ridiculous bunch up every driver does.

This isn't a criticism I have of Lewis, it's of every driver, and how F1 deals with it. F1 has a habit of not enforcing rules and standards like this unless their is an accident. The same crime can be committed, but as long as the result isn't a car in the wall, they get away with it. It's a bit silly, tbh and easily solved.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Even if you hold speed. Staying at a low speed when you're in an acceleration zone...what exactly is expected?

That the car behind you doesn't run into you. Vettel isn't a dumb rookie. He should have expected Hamilton to mix up the strategy the second time around.

I don't disagree with your assessment of what ought to happen at all, but bearing in mind that the FIA don't require that to happen, I would apportion fault 'beyond reasonable doubt' in Vettel's direction.

[Aysedasi]

Anyhow, after watching the borefest that was the Monaco GP, it does restore the faith that a street circuit can produce something entertaining to watch!

[bella]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Is there a huge difference between 2nd and 3rd? I mean obviously there is a handful of points involved, but are you going to risk a podium (that's been gifted to you in circumstances that are unlikely to repeat themselves), to get a slightly better podium?

to a racer, bloody right there is. as happy as he was to get his first podium you can bet he'll be absolutely kicking himself for losing 2nd on the line.

giving someone a laptime to hit on a short lap is incredibly pressured! a non-specific "crack on, son" request is far less specific and he knows exactly what he has to do.

he did something similar in f3 - made a complete and utter shambles of it, turned it round, sorted himself out and delivered.

[billy bleach]

How come Ted Kravitz - who clearly
Knows everything - doesn't run an F1 team?...

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

That the car behind you doesn't run into you. Vettel isn't a dumb rookie. He should have expected Hamilton to mix up the strategy the second time around.

I don't disagree with your assessment of what ought to happen at all, but bearing in mind that the FIA don't require that to happen, I would apportion fault 'beyond reasonable doubt' in Vettel's direction.

This is where we disagree. I don't consider slowing down to be part of strategy. Slowing down at different points only serves to make the car behind take avoiding action. That's not strategy - that's just dangerous. That's where I don't think it's ok to do what Lewis did, and that applies to every driver on the grid.

Article 39.13 (snippet of relevant info)
In order to avoid the likelihood of accidents before the safety car returns to the pits, from the point at which the lights on the car are turned out drivers must proceed at a pace which involves no erratic acceleration or braking nor any other manoeuvre which is likely to endanger other drivers or impede the restart.

IMO, slowing or holding pace in an area you expect cars to be accelerating, and/or using your slow car as strategy, does violate that. But in the usual FIA way, it's fantastically vague and open to interpretation, which means your opinion is just as valid under these regs. Isn't F1 fun.

Originally Posted by bella

to a racer, bloody right there is. as happy as he was to get his first podium you can bet he'll be absolutely kicking himself for losing 2nd on the line.

giving someone a laptime to hit on a short lap is incredibly pressured! a non-specific "crack on, son" request is far less specific and he knows exactly what he has to do.

he did something similar in f3 - made a complete and utter shambles of it, turned it round, sorted himself out and delivered.

I see exactly what you're saying, but to me, that was risky. Williams has been a bit of a wet fish with how it has dealt with Stroll (leading to the worlds most pitiful radio call). Ironically enough, they needed to treat him like Smeds used to treat Massa during the race. They got away with it, but to me that was unnecessary given the position IMO.

Originally Posted by billy bleach

How come Ted Kravitz - who clearly
Knows everything - doesn't run an F1 team?...

Same reason none of us do. We're all arm chair expert. But there's also plenty of people out there who are excellent at this sort of stuff (Ted being one), but there isn't quite enough space in the F1 paddock for everybody who is good.

[spider]

Mess of a race - a truly great, Eton Mess. Loved it. Tasty.

Great track this, really is. Absolute carnage - and utterly unpredictable.

Lewis doing a brake test - and then Seb deciding to not have it - and bashing wheels, deliberate or through simply seeing red mist and waving both arms about. I mean, if Lewis moaned about Nico being aggressive towards him...this at least spices things up a bit...

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Whether there was a brake test or not is not clear, but what the telemetry that was shown on screen during one of the replays was that Hamilton didn't touch the throttle on the exit of the corner.

I know that he was making space for the SC to get away from him, but I think he should be accelerating out of the corner even if it's more gently than race conditions.

I think Seb was carrying more speed through the corner and was entitled to expect Hamilton to have cleared the corner exit and not to be just freewheeling at low speed.

Having said all that, there is no excuse for the subsequent contact, whether meant or not, I hope he is embarrassed by it and also his interviews later where he seems to be in denial of the side by side contact.

As for the penalty, I think the 10 second stop go is about the largest in race sporting penalty that the stewards can give. I notice they have also given 3 points onto his licence so now sitting at 9 going in to Austria. Though I think there was mention that with the rolling year he drops back to 7 points on his licence at Silverstone.

[GT6]

This circuit is one of the best IMHO a real treat with plenty of overtaking opportunities, a fast straight and parts that match any city centre track, loved it

[spider]

Agreed. I mean, Seb refusing to even reference the incident is...er...different.

I mean, if the cars even out on the same type of pace / they end up being on the same piece of road a bit more, it's going to be fun to watch how this escalates. I can't remember Lewis having a proper ding dong / argument with a driver from another team, other than his clumsy incidents with Felipe?

It was a awesome race that though. Such a mixed track.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

Whether there was a brake test or not is not clear, but what the telemetry that was shown on screen during one of the replays was that Hamilton didn't touch the throttle on the exit of the corner.

I know that he was making space for the SC to get away from him, but I think he should be accelerating out of the corner even if it's more gently than race conditions.

I think Seb was carrying more speed through the corner and was entitled to expect Hamilton to have cleared the corner exit and not to be just freewheeling at low speed.

Having said all that, there is no excuse for the subsequent contact, whether meant or not, I hope he is embarrassed by it and also his interviews later where he seems to be in denial of the side by side contact.

As for the penalty, I think the 10 second stop go is about the largest in race sporting penalty that the stewards can give. I notice they have also given 3 points onto his licence so now sitting at 9 going in to Austria. Though I think there was mention that with the rolling year he drops back to 7 points on his licence at Silverstone.

I agree with this. The international slowness on exit of corner not only caught Vettel, but had the potential to accordion down the field.

Vettel should not have then retaliated with the wheel clashing.

[Adam43]

I thought Lewis dealt with it well when interviewed in the pen afterwards.

Vettel less is, but what could he say after that! He threw away any chance to complain about Hamilton's SC pacing.