[Team] Red Bull: Unbullievable

[E.B]

Hopefully this does not ruin both of their careers, particularly that of Albon. Not that Gasly's performance to date this year (with rare exceptions) warranted the promotion he got..... one that was arguably forced on Red Bull by Danny Ric's unexpected and late departure decision.

Being Max's team mate with half a season's F1 experience is a big ask on Albon...

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Marker in to bring up nationality again in page 10.

This could be the new Webber to Renault!

Any discussion about Max... the answer to any question can be... "Well, you know it's because he is Belgian and not Dutch". Say it as a statement and not a question.

Richard

[karting]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

always been curious myself...but i would think the week after Germany/last race the teams need to transport everything back to the factory and break it down and then a week before Spa they are back on the move again.

so effectively its just a two week break starting this Monday morning perhaps?

but either way, the drivers will no doubt still be training and, as karting said, they already got the seat fitting out of the way.

i would be curious to know if your friend had said anything about a Kvyat seat fitting as well.

and a side question...had RBR nominated a reserve driver earlier in the year? i thought it may have been Buemi?

I asked him at the time funnily about kyvat and he said he wasn’t at the factory.

He goes on Holiday tomorrow for two weeks, so the factory is shut then to employees. There will be builders in though renovating stuff and engineers servicing the machines. So even though the factory is shut to F1 employees there will be people working there

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by E.B

Hopefully this does not ruin both of their careers, particularly that of Albon. Not that Gasly's performance to date this year (with rare exceptions) warranted the promotion he got..... one that was arguably forced on Red Bull by Danny Ric's unexpected and late departure decision.

Being Max's team mate with half a season's F1 experience is a big ask on Albon...

RBR is just throwing drivers at a wall and seeing which ones stick. I think the problem is that young drivers are so hungry to get to the top of the F1 pyramid that they will gladly step into the mouth of the Red Bull lion. Then it's sink or swim.

If I was any driver that was promoted first to Toro Rosso, it clearly has to be on their mind that they might be called up to RBR at any time and that they might fail in a way that they might later decided was not particularly fair (not saying F1 is fair as it is dog eat dog)... or succeed and make their career (such as Max has).

Max Verstappen. The Belgian F1 trendsetter and future world champion!

Richard

PS: I am a bit over the top with respect to my idiom usage today! I didn't plan it that way.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Welcome to page 1 of this thread! I say when the topic of his nationality dies down. And we want to derail the discussion again. Just post... "Isn't Max Belgian and not Dutch? He was born in Belgium!"

Richard

Legally one takes place of Birth followed by Mothers Nationalaty as triggers so how is he Dutch unless he formally applied for Dutchness

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Legally one takes place of Birth followed by Mothers Nationalaty as triggers so how is he Dutch unless he formally applied for Dutchness

Facts must not be allowed to cloud this discussion.

I will stop talking about this. As mentioned above... we are scheduled to restart this topic on page 10. This current discussion is premature.

Richard

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Legally one takes place of Birth followed by Mothers Nationalaty as triggers so how is he Dutch unless he formally applied for Dutchness

My Cypriot-born to an Irish-mother wife is legally British?

[gert]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Legally one takes place of Birth followed by Mothers Nationalaty as triggers so how is he Dutch unless he formally applied for Dutchness

Everyone has been making fun of me - not literally but still - but that is indeed what happened.
He had both the Dutch and Belgian nationality as a kid.
When he turned 18 he chose Dutch nationality, and no longer has a Belgian passport at this time.
The few Belgain media who (still) claim he is half-Belgian are factually wrong, even if that was right 4 years ago.

I have posted a few links to Dutch and Belgian articles a few pages back.

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Legally one takes place of Birth followed by Mothers Nationalaty as triggers

I think the regulation for nationality at birth is not the same everywhere in the world.
* The son of a (German) friend of mine is born in the USA. The kid is American, the parents are not.
* 2 good friends of mine (both Belgian) moved to Switzerland 7 years ago. Both their kids were born there, but they are not Swiss but Belgian. They will need to follow a procedure to get Swiss ID (which is what they want, eventually, because they plan on staying there) but they still have to wait a few years before they can even start that.

--

Originally Posted by chillibowl

and a side question...had RBR nominated a reserve driver earlier in the year? i thought it may have been Buemi?

Indeed, Buemi. Not that it matters much...

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Let's face it, Gasly has been poor. Maybe the car wasn't to his liking, I don't know. But bearing in mind that the whole team is inevitably focussed on Max, it's a roll of the dice I'd have taken.

Absolutely they want the points, the chance of more points that is can’t blame them...

[Casper]

This is most probably Marko seeing the money at the end of the rainbow. Someone (it may have been here) pointed out that the higher the team finishes in the WCC ladder the more money they get and I am guessing Marko is a fairly mercenary character when it comes to money. He was a driver & competitor many years ago and most probably does not like the way Gasley was so far behind. People who are highly competitive have no patience and want to see results NOW.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Legally one takes place of Birth followed by Mothers Nationalaty as triggers so how is he Dutch unless he formally applied for Dutchness

Belgian Dutch what’s the difference??

(I jest)

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by rich07

Belgian Dutch what’s the difference??

(I jest)

Funny isn't it - 2 small countries, each at most 100km or so wide that would take an allegedly Dutch or Belgian driver maybe an hour and a half to traverse.

Daniel Ricciardo meanwhile, when at his "home" GP is 36 hours driving hours (plus stops) from his actual home (Perth).

But maybe with his Italian lineage, his "home" GP might be in Europe? But then he DID say that he really likes Austin so maybe the US would be the go? (BTW - I'm jesting too!)

Good thread, really enjoying it and yeah, big move to change drivers on Red Bull's part but for whatever reason, Mr Gasly has been struggling big time. Hopefully he ends up feeling a little more at home in the Torro Rosso and can work on getting some confidence back.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

his mom is Belgian, but the same can be said for Lance Stroll

Lance Stroll is Dutch? You learn something new every day.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Let's face it, Gasly has been poor. Maybe the car wasn't to his liking, I don't know. But bearing in mind that the whole team is inevitably focussed on Max, it's a roll of the dice I'd have taken.

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Absolutely they want the points, the chance of more points that is can’t blame them...

It’s not outrageous. They probably won’t do worse.

And this is how Red Bull operates. They will rarely stick with a driver, support and nurture. Other teams do this and it can work for them. Red Bull won’t get the benefit of that method. However, if they go through enough they’ll find a diamond. It has worked with Max. What’s there strike rate, 1 in 10?

[Oldtony]

Originally Posted by Adam43

However, if they go through enough they’ll find a diamond. It has worked with Max. What’s there strike rate, 1 in 10?

Also worked in the case of Sebastian Vettel and Danny Ricciardo. Wich would seem to improve their strike rate.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Lance Stroll is Dutch? You learn something new every day.

I thought he must be descended from a SLOW worm

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

RBR is just throwing drivers at a wall and seeing which ones stick.

I think the URL of the Autosport link on my phone sums it up

[S griffin]

I have to say this is a bit of a risky move from RBR. Considering Gasly was probably promoted too soon, let's replace him with someone in the middle of his first season! Albon has been good so far, but while Max did replace Kyvat midway through 2016, he did at least a full season under his belt. We'll see if this actually pays off for both parties

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by gert

He had both the Dutch and Belgian nationality as a kid.
When he turned 18 he chose Dutch nationality, and no longer has a Belgian passport at this time.
The few Belgain media who (still) claim he is half-Belgian are factually wrong, even if that was right 4 years ago.

Verstappen may have decided to only retain and therefore use his Dutch passport, but has he actually gone as far as to have his Belgian nationality revoked?

There is a big difference. Almost like a man deciding to self identify as a women.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Verstappen may have decided to only retain and therefore use his Dutch passport, but has he actually gone as far as to have his Belgian nationality revoked?

There is a big difference. Almost like a man deciding to self identify as a women.

I'm not aware of Verstappen renouncing his Belgian nationality with the Belgian authorities, so he will still legally retain it under Belgian law.

[Armco Bender]

Would he want to identify with a nation that puts mayonnaise on its chips?...

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

Would he want to identify with a nation that puts mayonnaise on its chips?...

Now that is the most important question that has been raised in the whole Nationality debate!

[gert]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Verstappen may have decided to only retain and therefore use his Dutch passport, but has he actually gone as far as to have his Belgian nationality revoked?

There is a big difference. Almost like a man deciding to self identify as a women.

It's not like he revoked it, it's more like he didn't confirm/renew/requested it.
You don't have a "real" passport until you turn 18 -- in Belgium, may be different in other parts of the world.

When you turn 18, you have to formally register for an ID card. Those with a double nationality can choose to not apply for one and choose their other nationality.


I am not sure if applying for one nationality would have had consequences on the other nationality. There seem to be different regulations for that all over the world.

* If you are Dutch and apply for (and get) Swiss nationality, you will automatically lose Dutch nationality - as per Dutch law
* If you are Belgian and apply for (and get) Swiss nationality, you can still be Belgian as well

I live near the Dutch/Belgian border, and we have a broad mix of Belgian and Dutch people living here. As far as I know none of the adults has a double nationality (anymore), while some of the kids still do.
I am not sure if that's by law, or just their choice.

--

Frankly, I don't think there was much benefit for Max to be formally Dutch *and* Belgian -- if that was possible at all.
If he had picked up Belgian nationality (too), he would have been bound to a few Belgian annoyances: like for instance: voting is mandatory for every Belgian citizen.
Those regulations have since been eased a bit for Belgians living abroad, but I can't imagine Max being very interested in that.

I don't think a Belgian nationality would offer him any benefits that he didn't already get through his Dutch nationality.

(Of course that's totally different for non-European people who combine their original nationality with Belgian or Dutch or ... )


--

Of course, I agree that Belgium still means something special to Max even if he is not formally half-Belgian anymore, be it by choice or by law.

[S griffin]

Afaik he only races under a Dutch licence. He’s under the same nationality of duel Dutch/Belgian

[gert]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Afaik he only races under a Dutch licence. He’s under the same nationality of duel Dutch/Belgian

No, that changed when he turned 18 and applied for Dutch nationality only. I posted a few Dutch links a few pages back.

--

EDIT:

Regulations for dual nationality can be tricky, especially when picking up one nationality triggers an automatic revoke of the other one.
And of course every regualtion has a few exceptions

https://www.government.nl/topics/dut...al-nationality
https://www.government.nl/topics/dut...ch-nationality
https://www.government.nl/binaries/g...ber+105927.pdf


I think if Max wanted to identify as Dutch, it was far easier to just apply for Dutch nationality only and not bother with any of the regulations or exceptions of either country