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4 Feb 2007, 02:14 (Ref:1832941) | #76 | |
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I'd say from champcars perspective they have a lot on their plate for this year: new car, new tv deal, new engine badging partner, new events, etc. With the DNC convention looming in 2008 at the Pepsi center I think this is an issue champcar could do without at the moment and while I am ticked the decision was made as it was, it is probably better to find a proper promoter/sponsor/calendar date than cobble something together half assed for 2007 and then have problems for 2008 anyways.
Whether the race was profitable or not would not have mattered with Centrix going bankrupt for reasons completely unrelated to the race(you can find this info in the denver post archives if so inclined). If Centrix was still trucking along it would probably be business as usual(dnc convention excepted). In any case, especially in 2005, it was a successful event with a lot of potential. So one hopes it returns in 2009 stronger than ever. It will be missed. Laguna Seca and Road Atlanta are being discussed as replacements FOR THIS YEAR. |
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4 Feb 2007, 02:14 (Ref:1832942) | #77 | ||
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4 Feb 2007, 02:22 (Ref:1832945) | #78 | ||
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4 Feb 2007, 03:09 (Ref:1832956) | #79 | ||
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Interesting point to note, Steve Johnson's statement regarding Denver, the anouncement is talking about a postponement and not a cancellation – that indicates that CCWS and/or KK own the rights and that they are working on plans to give the race a future. Particularly with regard to his statement where he is underlining that CCWS invested a lot into the growth of this race and that it is still important to Champcar...
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4 Feb 2007, 10:26 (Ref:1833113) | #80 | |||
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4 Feb 2007, 13:44 (Ref:1833200) | #81 | |
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If it was as good as Johnson was quoted as saying in the news release, they'd run.
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4 Feb 2007, 13:55 (Ref:1833204) | #82 | |||
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But, good grief, who am I to judge? Carry on if you like. |
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Give me a drink don't be talking so much you're a pain in the butt - Mick |
4 Feb 2007, 13:56 (Ref:1833205) | #83 | |||
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... Since all men live in darkness, who believes something is not a test of whether it is true or false. I have spent years trying to get people to ask simple questions: What is the evidence, and what does it mean? -Bill James |
4 Feb 2007, 18:27 (Ref:1833367) | #84 | ||
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I'm not a big fan of Steve Johnson, he's always over spinnng and hyping things. One of the refreshing things that occured when KK took over was that they were being more realistic and information seemed to flow more openly. I can't be sure, but the series seems to be going back a little more the other way. Even now when you read or hear something from KK it seems more legitimate than what comes from Johnson.
An interesting point is raised above about Laguna Seca. If Mazda did become the engine sponsor, would they insist upon the CC and Atlantics returning to the track. If not surely they would be in favor of it. Last edited by Snrub; 4 Feb 2007 at 18:32. |
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No Rotor, No Motor. |
5 Feb 2007, 03:47 (Ref:1833648) | #85 | ||
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This looks like a great reason to change the date to Miller Motorsports Park does anyone agree?
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I did'nt hit you i just took the air off you spoiler! |
5 Feb 2007, 04:38 (Ref:1833657) | #86 | ||
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5 Feb 2007, 04:39 (Ref:1833658) | #87 | ||
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5 Feb 2007, 14:28 (Ref:1833953) | #88 | |||
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Goose - gander If you want to refute the opinion, call it out, but calling out the user is not only poor arguing, it's explicitly against the rules on ten-tenths. Consider that. |
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... Since all men live in darkness, who believes something is not a test of whether it is true or false. I have spent years trying to get people to ask simple questions: What is the evidence, and what does it mean? -Bill James |
5 Feb 2007, 17:58 (Ref:1834069) | #89 | ||
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Paul, I was asking a question about tactics. It seems that they are employing mutual "first aid" when the other is hurting. Could be my over active imagination? (another question)
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"A gentelman is guilty of every crime that does not require courage" Oscar Wilde. |
5 Feb 2007, 18:36 (Ref:1834088) | #90 | |||
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Look, it's easy. Debunk the myths, address and arrange the facts to your own satisfaction, and we'll let the stronger argument stand. |
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... Since all men live in darkness, who believes something is not a test of whether it is true or false. I have spent years trying to get people to ask simple questions: What is the evidence, and what does it mean? -Bill James |
6 Feb 2007, 12:55 (Ref:1834665) | #91 | ||
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Dog gone it, my apologies to the group and to you Norman for my earlier post. Nothin' seemed to kill this thread faster and that was certainly not my intention, its been some really great discussion. I could've seen that coming.
Rookie mistake, won't happen again. |
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Give me a drink don't be talking so much you're a pain in the butt - Mick |
6 Feb 2007, 13:10 (Ref:1834680) | #92 | ||
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This shamelessly stolen from Fogelhund in another CCWS thread.
I'm one of the ones not familiar with Mr. Wilke but I strongly agree with this statement. Likewise, how on earth does CCWS expect to succeed in Europe where there are not two 'but a hundred and two' OWS is beyond me. |
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Give me a drink don't be talking so much you're a pain in the butt - Mick |
7 Feb 2007, 02:12 (Ref:1835082) | #93 | ||
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I believe in a long ago thread I likened CC's approach to the old Rollerderby (or Joie Chitwood's Thrill Show). You know, "The Bay City Bombers vs The Jammers at the Johnstown War Memorial Arena." The Bombers never were ever really "home" as they just went town to town in barnstorming mode. It just becomes a travelling road show with no roots or rootedness or any sense of a geographic center of operations.
GF and KK own the engine supplier, most of the cars, the Series, promotion rights at many venues plus the naughty bits needed to run a race. For the right price, they will show up in your town. A bit harsh, but that is what it is starting to look like. I think the more important question regarding the Euro Tour is: "What will happen next year?" Wil Europe still be on the schedule or will Ansan take one of the dates? |
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"He's still a young guy and I always think, slightly morbidly, the last thing you learn is how to die and at the end of the day everybody learns every single day." - The Ever-Cheerfull Ron Dennis on Lewis Hamilton. |
7 Feb 2007, 04:24 (Ref:1835103) | #94 | |
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Well that's no different John than any music group, race series, circus, etc.
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7 Feb 2007, 04:46 (Ref:1835106) | #95 | ||
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No, it is different. Each of those things you mention has a fanbase or core audience if you will, but the common thread there is entertainment rather than "sporting event."
Racing series typically have a geographic region where the events occur on a regular basis (see NASCAR or F1) during a particular time of the year. There is a "solidity" to them, if you will. The EPL would not be the EPL if random football teams just showed up in various cities and then Man U played the team du jour and moved along to the next town. Your use of a rock group but particularly the circus is closer to what CC seems to be moving to: an entertainment act (Motorock lives on in a sense) that comes to town and leaves a few days later. There is nothing really that "anchors" the Series in our consciousness. |
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"He's still a young guy and I always think, slightly morbidly, the last thing you learn is how to die and at the end of the day everybody learns every single day." - The Ever-Cheerfull Ron Dennis on Lewis Hamilton. |
7 Feb 2007, 05:11 (Ref:1835111) | #96 | |||
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Upon entry into the Bathurst 1000, it should be mandatory to view the compelling "Moffat - Man and the Mountain" film |
7 Feb 2007, 12:10 (Ref:1835378) | #97 | |||
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Give me a drink don't be talking so much you're a pain in the butt - Mick |
7 Feb 2007, 14:01 (Ref:1835459) | #98 | |||
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Rock shows are static sets (mostly) shown to multiple live audiences, but how much viewership would they have if a whole tour were televised? I doubt people would tune in to 17 concerts in a row in significant numbers for all but the most popular acts. (Pearl Jam's 72 official bootlegs from 2000-2001 being an example counter to my assertion, but no one would argue that Pearl Jam and Champcar have ever occupied the same circles of fame) |
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... Since all men live in darkness, who believes something is not a test of whether it is true or false. I have spent years trying to get people to ask simple questions: What is the evidence, and what does it mean? -Bill James |
7 Feb 2007, 15:02 (Ref:1835494) | #99 | |
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There's a line out there somewhere between sports and entertainment that may be different for each individual.
But, as John said, the Bay Area Bombers, the Harlem Globetrotters, concerts, "bigtime rasslin'," even in this context the Blue Angels and Thunderbirds and the like are entertainment, a show, an exhibition and their schedules are pretty irregular. When it comes to sports, Major League Baseball plays 162 games a year. Each team plays 81 at home, 81 on the road. The schedule is known far in advance. Other than a few interleague games at midseason, the Chicago White Sox play American League teams and the Chicago Cubs play National League teams. The NFL teams play 16 games before playoffs, eight at home and eight on the road (by the way, it's already known who each team plays home and road in '07 but the dates haven't been announced yet). That stability in a competitive sports atmosphere is a big asset. NASCAR's GENERAL schedule stability, i.e., the Daytona 500, the Bristol night race, etc., year after year helps its overall presentation a great deal. |
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7 Feb 2007, 17:33 (Ref:1835613) | #100 | ||
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You seem to be trying to tell us: if we had one big event with big attendance and a bunch of others Even if we have to give away tickets to make the stands look half full (or half empty?); we would be better off?
Well what if that one big event starts losing fans and contestants? What if we needed subsidize retired drivers to fill up the grid? Would that wonderful? Champ Car World Series is moving foreword. |
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