Massa losing Ferrari drive?

[ralf fan]

Massa is getting soundly beaten by Alonso in terms of pace thus far. Infact I'd say he has been average at best. Somehow though he has managed to be leading the championship but at this rate it is only a matter of time. Alonso has more than the measure of him.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by ralf fan

Massa is getting soundly beaten by Alonso in terms of pace thus far. Infact I'd say he has been average at best. Somehow though he has managed to be leading the championship but at this rate it is only a matter of time. Alonso has more than the measure of him.

Did you ever had any doubts about that ? Teflonso is the best out there.

[ralf fan]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Did you ever had any doubts about that ? Teflonso is the best out there.

Nope. No shame in losing to Alonso. And Massa is atleast making a better fist of it than others.

[herowassenna]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Did you ever had any doubts about that ? Teflonso is the best out there.

Totally. When people speak of Massa againt WDC's, they speak of MS at the end of his career. Well, first time round...
They speak of a Kimi that I never actually recognised as top 3, and who showed up maybe 3 times a year.
Alonso will be relentless and I think we haven't heard about him having a go at the team, because he knows he's unsettled Massa.
Listening to commentary team, Massa is driving wildly again this weekend...

Just a thought.... If Alonso qualifies ahead and finishes ahead of Massa in Istanbul.....

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by chunterer

To date he has only 'beaten' him when the Spaniard has had issues.

'tis why i said that i doubt that Felipe would beat Fernando.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by herowassenna

Totally. When people speak of Massa againt WDC's, they speak of MS at the end of his career. Well, first time round...
They speak of a Kimi that I never actually recognised as top 3, and who showed up maybe 3 times a year.
Alonso will be relentless and I think we haven't heard about him having a go at the team, because he knows he's unsettled Massa.
Listening to commentary team, Massa is driving wildly again this weekend...

Just a thought.... If Alonso qualifies ahead and finishes ahead of Massa in Istanbul.....

Wow, you're just assuming things way ahead of the situation.

I can't remember anyone ranking Massa better than anyone of those guys you mentioned.

The best definition for him, is that he was capable to overcome his limits in many situations, being 2008 the most of it all. That being said, it happens that the kid has fans like any other driver in F1, and Ferrari is settled to have someone like Massa for this time being. It certainly will change in the future and then we'll see.
As much as I don't see RBR replacing Mark for Kimi, the same applies for Massa. A team hardly will make two WDC - that's not impossible but highly difficult - so there's an equation to keep things balanced, usually they battle each other until one clearly gets an advantage, and the other is told to support his teammate. Massa did this in support of Kimi, so he's a team player Ferrari can count on. Why would they risk to put someone that in the end will bring trouble to the team, like McLaren did ? That's business not a novelty at the end of the day.

[herowassenna]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Wow, you're just assuming things way ahead of the situation.

I can't remember anyone ranking Massa better than anyone of those guys you mentioned.

The best definition for him, is that he was capable to overcome his limits in many situations, being 2008 the most of it all. That being said, it happens that the kid has fans like any other driver in F1, and Ferrari is settled to have someone like Massa for this time being. It certainly will change in the future and then we'll see.
As much as I don't see RBR replacing Mark for Kimi, the same applies for Massa. A team hardly will make two WDC - that's not impossible but highly difficult - so there's an equation to keep things balanced, usually they battle each other until one clearly gets an advantage, and the other is told to support his teammate. Massa did this in support of Kimi, so he's a team player Ferrari can count on. Why would they risk to put someone that in the end will bring trouble to the team, like McLaren did ? That's business not a novelty at the end of the day.

Agree with your views, my assumption about Istanbul is to do with this being a Massa circuit. He won there in 06, 07 and 08. If he doesn't beat Alonso there, i can imagine this seriously affecting him throughout the year.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Mr V

'tis why i said that i doubt that Felipe would beat Fernando.

All in aid of the discussion V

[Mr V]

Couldn't believe it that Fernando had made 3 stops to Felipe's 2, but was just behind him and i'd imagine that the harmony in the team isn't at it's highest after FA mugged FM going into the pits!

I can't see FM losing his drive, atm, but, the team will want him to up his game for sure.

One other point, dispite Kimi winning the title in '07, i feel that Felipe had the measure of him the majority of the time, but FM is nowhere near FA, that's how much better FA is over Kimi imo.

[herowassenna]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Couldn't believe it that Fernando had made 3 stops to Felipe's 2, but was just behind him and i'd imagine that the harmony in the team isn't at it's highest after FA mugged FM going into the pits!

I can't see FM losing his drive, atm, but, the team will want him to up his game for sure.

One other point, dispite Kimi winning the title in '07, i feel that Felipe had the measure of him the majority of the time, but FM is nowhere near FA, that's how much better FA is over Kimi imo.

Total agreement.
I so wished Mclaren had signed Kimi for this season. Lewis would have confirmed what we already know.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by herowassenna

Total agreement.
I so wished Mclaren had signed Kimi for this season. Lewis would have confirmed what we already know.

I bet that Lewis wishes that too then maybe he'd be leading his team mate as oppossed to being behind

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Mr V

I bet that Lewis wishes that too then maybe he'd be leading his team mate as oppossed to being behind

All this: 'Driver A was faster than Driver B at such and such team, therefore...' type talk, doesn't amount to a hill of beans in the cold light of day.

[chunterer]

There has been 4 races, 3 of which have been a bit topsy turvey.

In Bahrain there was nowt between Alonso and Massa.

In Oz, Massa was slower but finished ahead.

In Malaysia, the same was panning out and then Alonso blew up

Today was the first time Fernando got really aggressive with his teammate.

Massa had a poor race today, his first of the season.

To say Alonso is murdering him is a bit presumtious at this stage, there's a long way to go.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

It shall also be very interesting to see what happens inside Ferrari in the next few races. Alonso's mugging of Massa going into the pits is reminiscent of him and Lewis in Hungary a few years ago. I'm not saying there's going to be a huge falling out, but I get the feeling Massa and the Ferrar crew is quite tight. If they feel "their boy" is being mistreated by Alonso, well... I'll just get the popcorn ready.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson

If they feel "their boy" is being mistreated by Alonso, well... I'll just get the popcorn ready.

But isn't Fernando "their boy" too? After all, dispite there being no #1 and #2 driver, he was bought in to get the job done and whilst i don't think that the team will impose team orders, Alonso looks the more likely to do the biz.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Since his accident, I don't think Massa is 100% there.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Since his accident, I don't think Massa is 100% there.

I would have to agree, and I do not want to as I am fond of Felipe.

I see something wrong with the left eye, is it just me?

[herowassenna]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson

If they feel "their boy"

I don't believe he is "their boy"
Smedley and Massa have a tight relationship, I agree, but Massa has lost his support at the team.
Jean Todt left Ferrari in 2007, Massa's manager is Nicolas Todt...
Schumacher, Ferrari's special advisor, gave up the role last winter, when he joined Mercedes, Massa always had a strong relationship with Michael...
And, Massa has a true fighter against him now, not some couldn't care less Finn or a past his sell by date 7 times champion.
I think Ferrari would have come in for heavy criticism if they had dropped Massa last year, but it says alot that they preferred paying out $20,000,000 dollars to get rid of Kimi.

Some drivers through history, seem to attract " defeat from the jaws of victory." On his day he is untouchable, much as Barrichello, Webber, Coulthard have been, but these aren't motivator of teams.

Senna always demanded 150% from his mechanics and got it because they could see their efforts rewarded in qualifying or the race. They knew Senna would be on top his game.
Massa has proved indifferent enough times over the years to prove that the team needed a true team leader. Someone on it 150% of the time.
Massa is a nice fellow...says it all doesn't it?

[Belatti]

Originally Posted by herowassenna

Some drivers through history, seem to attract " defeat from the jaws of victory." On his day he is untouchable, much as Barrichello, Webber, Coulthard have been, but these aren't motivator of teams.


Massa is a nice fellow...says it all doesn't it?

Cant be more right

[herowassenna]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I see something wrong with the left eye, is it just me?

Yes, I've noticed that, but I don't think that alone is affecting him. I think he's being engulfed by the Alonso experience.
Massa's a nice kid, but not a leader. I'm loving Alonso's attitude. Ferrari has been missing this for some years.
Even at their peak, in 2004, Ferrari hadn't had to really fight since 2000. Even 2003 they won half the races.
Schumacher/ Ferrari were awesome in 1997 to 2000. They seemed to settle into a complacent winning attitude after championship success, because when the situation arose when they needed to fight in 2006, that spark had gone.
Schumacher's and Ferrari's arrogance in Monaco qualifying spoke volumes.
Almost like they couldn't believe the nerve of others to "beat" them and then dispute their excuse.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by herowassenna

I don't believe he is "their boy"
Smedley and Massa have a tight relationship, I agree, but Massa has lost his support at the team.
Jean Todt left Ferrari in 2007, Massa's manager is Nicolas Todt...
Schumacher, Ferrari's special advisor, gave up the role last winter, when he joined Mercedes, Massa always had a strong relationship with Michael...
And, Massa has a true fighter against him now, not some couldn't care less Finn or a past his sell by date 7 times champion.
I think Ferrari would have come in for heavy criticism if they had dropped Massa last year, but it says alot that they preferred paying out $20,000,000 dollars to get rid of Kimi.

Some drivers through history, seem to attract " defeat from the jaws of victory." On his day he is untouchable, much as Barrichello, Webber, Coulthard have been, but these aren't motivator of teams.

Senna always demanded 150% from his mechanics and got it because they could see their efforts rewarded in qualifying or the race. They knew Senna would be on top his game.
Massa has proved indifferent enough times over the years to prove that the team needed a true team leader. Someone on it 150% of the time.
Massa is a nice fellow...says it all doesn't it?

Originally Posted by herowassenna

Yes, I've noticed that, but I don't think that alone is affecting him. I think he's being engulfed by the Alonso experience.
Massa's a nice kid, but not a leader. I'm loving Alonso's attitude. Ferrari has been missing this for some years.
Even at their peak, in 2004, Ferrari hadn't had to really fight since 2000. Even 2003 they won half the races.
Schumacher/ Ferrari were awesome in 1997 to 2000. They seemed to settle into a complacent winning attitude after championship success, because when the situation arose when they needed to fight in 2006, that spark had gone.
Schumacher's and Ferrari's arrogance in Monaco qualifying spoke volumes.
Almost like they couldn't believe the nerve of others to "beat" them and then dispute their excuse.

Nice speech, you could make a career out of that, but you forgot one thing before your statement and another after...

"In my opinion..." or IMO for short.

And as it is your opinion, I respect it. Maybe some other time we can elaborate on that.

[herowassenna]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Nice speech, you could make a career out of that, but you forgot one thing before your statement and another after...

"In my opinion..." or IMO for short.

And as it is your opinion, I respect it. Maybe some other time we can elaborate on that.

Thankyou

[Peter Mallett]

I understood the BBC commentators as saying that Ferrari are holding out a one year deal to Massa with an option. The feeling is they want Kubica. Certainly Massa has been a bit lack lustre so far this year but that knock on the head might take a bit longer to get over than most of us think.

[VIVA GT]

I'm not a huge fan of Teflonso, in my opinion (thanks Bononi!) he's been found around too many contentious happenings within his teams.
However, I think his 'charging matador' approach is spectacular and makes for interesting watching. I also think this will appeal to the Latin side of his Ferrari team.
Previously I rated Massa highly but do feel his preformances so far this year to be a little lack-lustre. To be totally fair to the guy though, to come back to racing following that horrendous accident last year is one hell of a personal achievement...

[PabloTeK]

I think Massa has turned into Raikkonen Mk 2. He has a flashy team mate and now he's being ignored after having all the attention for a bit. He's still fast but I reckon Ferrari will wait and see how he does compared to Fernando, we know they're rather ruthless with drivrers!