[BTCC] Races 16, 17 & 18 - Snetterton, Norfolk - 2nd August 2009

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

Or you know the BTCC too well...

Clearly not, Nash excluded - http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=3775

[Icebaby]

After standing at the Esses for most of the day my opinion was Nash had a line to pass but Collard moved across on him, I would say it was 50/50.

Plato vs Turkington in race 1 again 50/50 but the main contact that put Plato out was from Jordan who deliberately put Plato off and that did deserve a penalty.

One word from Snetterton is not Gio although he drove well it has to be Paul O'Neill, to say the bloke was emotional on the podium was an understatment and he deserved all the success he got today. One can only hope he has done enough to keep his drive this year as he is a great driver and public front man for any company sponsering him, many people will be looking at sunshine.co.uk now...

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Clearly not, Nash excluded - http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=3775

Makes sense. Had to be either a penalty that didn't affect the result or a total DQ, as to give him a time penalty to drop him into 2nd for example, would benefit Turkington, but not Giovanardi. Although it has benefitted Turkington anyway, he's got an extra point of a lead now.

[gregc]

Originally Posted by Icebaby

One word from Snetterton is not Gio although he drove well it has to be Paul O'Neill, to say the bloke was emotional on the podium was an understatment and he deserved all the success he got today. One can only hope he has done enough to keep his drive this year as he is a great driver and public front man for any company sponsering him, many people will be looking at sunshine.co.uk now...

Haven't had a chance to watch all the races back yet, but just wanted to say amen to that. I don't think I've ever seen that big a reception for 1st, let alone 3rd, and Paul was absolutely in bits. I was just knackered after legging it from Russell to get there....

He should be fine for the rest of the season from what (little) I hear - I'm now praying that a) he can get a deal sorted for next year, and b) Sunshine buy a Civic or two. If anyone deserves the chance, Owy does. Top bloke.

[Hepatic]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

Johnny Who?

sorry, Johnny Adam. Its been a long day and i've only had about 2hrs sleep, must be catching up on me :/

No that was a racing incident and I'll be dissapointed if the result is changed. What is a driver meant to do when a car starts creeping across in front of you? Slow down or steer on to the grass? Don't think so, keep your foot planted. It's just unfortunate it had the outcome of badly damaging two BMW's.

yes, he is supposed to slow down. its called "survival" and some of the BTCC drivers could do with a degree in it!

but DQing Nash only hands a more points to Turkington which isn't really fair.

its got nothing to do with being "fair" regarding the impact on other drivers. its about safety and maintaining a supposedly high quality of driving. its only been over this year that they have started to clamp down on frankly appalling driving, and i'm afraid that its been going on for so long that its become the norm and when people are punished its seen as over the top.

if they were side by side i'd go with a racing incident but he was nowhere near and after Adam got excluded at Brands there was no option but to do the same. Its a shame in many ways, but rules and safety have to come above anything else.

[touringlegend]

Originally Posted by Icebaby

Plato vs Turkington in race 1 again 50/50 but the main contact that put Plato out was from Jordan who deliberately put Plato off and that did deserve a penalty.

Good point.. thank god this isn't F1 or the conspiracy theories would be raging... both teams are red..

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by gregc

Haven't had a chance to watch all the races back yet, but just wanted to say amen to that. I don't think I've ever seen that big a reception for 1st, let alone 3rd, and Paul was absolutely in bits. I was just knackered after legging it from Russell to get there....

Russell? That's a mere jog! Try running round from the outside of the Bombhole to the podium! I don't recommend it.

[Tim Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Hepatic

if they were side by side i'd go with a racing incident but he was nowhere near and after Adam got excluded at Brands there was no option but to do the same. Its a shame in many ways, but rules and safety have to come above anything else.

That's all fair enough, if applied across the board, but the inconsistency in punishments is appalling.

It is beginning (or continuing, maybe) to appear that if you are a "name" driver you can get away with nudging (some of the moves in race 1 today, or the numerous nudge-to-pass moves from Neal, Collard that have been glorified by the commentators rather than punished) but if you're not then you will get punished. The "stars" need to be taken into line asap.

When certain drivers are behind a slightly slower car I expect contact more often than a clean pass. I had a lot of nervous moments watching Owy today!

[gregc]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

Russell? That's a mere jog! Try running round from the outside of the Bombhole to the podium! I don't recommend it.

lol, fair play. That's impressive. Worth it from anywhere I reckon

[BootsOntheSide]

One rule for the big names, I'm afraid. Far more dangerous moves have gone unpunished in the past - including since Adam's disqualification. A real shame for James Nash, who probably learnt the move from Plato or Neal in the first place. As ever, Tim Harvey remains a glorified bear-baiter, predicting carnage as well as cheering it.

The late scrambling of the safety car was ridiculous, especially so soon after Pau WTCC. The drivers had no boards out to warn them, and for a moment it looked like being just as big as the incident there.

[Les]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

Russell? That's a mere jog! Try running round from the outside of the Bombhole to the podium! I don't recommend it.

that is impressive - I did Russel to podium. I felt just a tiny bit sorry for the other two as the clapping was pretty insignificant to the ear-shattering screams for Paul.

To me that was the whole reason I go racing.

[Hepatic]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

One rule for the big names, I'm afraid. Far more dangerous moves have gone unpunished in the past - including since Adam's disqualification. A real shame for James Nash, who probably learnt the move from Plato or Neal in the first place. As ever, Tim Harvey remains a glorified bear-baiter, predicting carnage as well as cheering it.

The late scrambling of the safety car was ridiculous, especially so soon after Pau WTCC. The drivers had no boards out to warn them, and for a moment it looked like being just as big as the incident there.

Totally agree, BTCC has long since sold itself on that kind of "racing" and the application of the rules seems to be getting better but so far its only the new drivers getting hit hard by it. Remains to be seen if that changes or not.

As for the SC, thats a really tough situation. From the time that Collards car stopped in a dangerous position race control probably only had about 15/20 secs most before the leaders go to the line. In that time the post cheif would have to ring in, explain the situation and convince them that he needed the SC. Then race control have to decide and relay that to start line and the SC. Its so little time to do all that i'm surprised they even got the car out as quick as they did. At least the driver didn't join the track on the racing line...

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

The late scrambling of the safety car was ridiculous, especially so soon after Pau WTCC. The drivers had no boards out to warn them, and for a moment it looked like being just as big as the incident there.

From the on-board you could see the start line SC board going out as the cars arrived at the start of the pit wall. Yellow flag was out slightly earlier but only by a few seconds.

It was a tough call. You don't call for a safety car as soon as Collard went off as he might have spun harmlessly to a halt on the grass.. By the time he and Jelley had made contact and the nearest observer had radioed/called in to CoC the leaders would have been approaching Russell.

Odd that in the same meeting we've had complaints about the SC going out too slowly (in race 1 where the track was clear by the time the SC was scrambled) and too quickly (in race 3).

[Dani Filth]

quite good racing at Snett .. in particular Thompson in race2 ..
as with the Nash incident... DSQ is a bit too much i think

[davyboy]

Wasn't the racing absolutely fantastic yesterday... some of the best I've seen in a long time. Plato's and Thompson's drives from the back of the grid in race 2 were outstanding.

The Nash disqualification reminded me a little of the Collard/Neal incident at Paddock Hill a few years ago. Thought the shove itself was innocuous, the consequences were very severe, and the question we were debating back then is whether the officials should look only at the incident or the consequences as well. I feel a driver should be admonished on the basis of his actions only and if that was the case, Nash really should have gotten away unpunished there. Did you see Nash's pre-podium interview with Louise ? I wonder if he had been a little more contrite there whether that would have helped his case.

I see Collard was suffering 'karting ribs' after the event. All they'll do in A+E is send him home and tell him not to laugh for a few weeks - been there ! If they are actually broken he'll be out of action though for about 6 weeks.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Plato's and Thompson's drives from the back of the grid in race 2 were outstanding.

Yep - and that's what's so annoying about Plato. He can drive quickly and pass cleanly so why does he have to nerf people so often? A little patience and he could have won the first race (and probably the second) as his car looked to be a lot quicker than Turkingtons.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by davyboy

I see Collard was suffering 'karting ribs' after the event. All they'll do in A+E is send him home and tell him not to laugh for a few weeks.

Keeping the repair bill to hand should do the trick!

Originally Posted by davyboy

Did you see Nash's pre-podium interview with Louise ? I wonder if he had been a little more contrite there whether that would have helped his case.

Yup, he was a bit brash wasn't he?

[chunder]

For me Collard brings a lot fo this kind of trouble on himself, he was weaving all over the palce both laps after the Esses and what is the guy behind supposed to do, just sit and weave with him.

Nash had momentum for sure and could have backed out, but then Collard is the new Anthony Reid/Patrick Watts, never backs out and causes more incidents than being the victim of them.

All in a days work as a BTCC driver

Better that than the Porsche drivers who were laughably poor, bout 10 guys who can drive, the rest wouldnt be on the pace at a club meeting for 6 year olds, money talks huh

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by chunder

For me Collard brings a lot fo this kind of trouble on himself, he was weaving all over the palce both laps after the Esses and what is the guy behind supposed to do, just sit and weave with him.

Nash had momentum for sure and could have backed out, but then Collard is the new Anthony Reid/Patriwck Watts, never backs out and casues more incidents than is involved in them

He does seem to get involved in an awful lot of incidents. He had a similar clash with Matt Neal earlier in the day which also served to ruin his race. I don't expect him to yield to every attack, but a bit of racecraft wouldn't go amiss.

[Craner Curves]

He was "weaving" because Nash kept nudging the back of his car I thought.

[crmalcolm]

Harvey alluded to excessive weaving ealier on in the commentary IIRC.
If Collard weaved (once) then I feel Nash is to blame.
If Collard was weaving (ie more than one move) then Collard is at fault.
I need to look at the replay to see exactly which is the case.

[Icebaby]

The Chevys appear quick but fragile, Jackson and Nash have had a few failures which is suprising on a car tried and tested in WTCC from RML, this needs much work as reliability should not be an issue.

Plato after race one hid in the team truck not happy, Dynamics said Thompson had a gearbox failure but they took an engine from the team truck into the garage and not a gearbox, there was motor oil all over the floor pan they were cleaning as well...ummm.

Where was Alan Morrison ?

[davyboy]

Speaking of expensive weekends, anyone know what the extent of damage on Vaulkhard's Lacetti was... he took to the scenery at a fair old rate of knots.

[Aunt Sally]

Originally Posted by chunder

For me Collard brings a lot fo this kind of trouble on himself, he was weaving all over the palce both laps after the Esses and what is the guy behind supposed to do, just sit and weave with him.

As Collard (as well as some other drivers) was trying to miss the oil trail that Chilton had laid down. YES Nash should have followed him!

[kimbo]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Speaking of expensive weekends, anyone know what the extent of damage on Vaulkhard's Lacetti was... he took to the scenery at a fair old rate of knots.

I was on post at Coram on Sunday.
The Lacetti was comprehensively, but not fatally damaged. All the offside bodywork, sill and possibly B pillar gone, but roof not touched. Offside front leg tweaked and steering broken. Bonnet and (I think) nearside front wing damaged also.
Shame, straight after an expensive rebuild and it really looked good, as did Harry's driving IMHO.

Kim