Gen 3 progress

[mite5255]

Don't the nuts go on so that the rotation of the wheel doesn't undo them

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by mite5255

Don't the nuts go on so that the rotation of the wheel doesn't undo them

On the left side of the car they do but not the right.

[mite5255]

Originally Posted by bluesport

On the left side of the car they do but not the right.

Thanks,

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by bluesport

On the left side of the car they do but not the right.

If that's true then someone has really mucked that up. Wheel nuts are normally different thread direction on each side of the car, so that braking forces tighten the nut (if there is any movement). If they're all the same direction, that really is not smart.

Meanwhile in other news, Ford sticking with it, at least until the end of 2024.

[Mixer]

The TBS data definitely showed something was wrong (Tander Butt Sensor)

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Tourer

If that's true then someone has really mucked that up. Wheel nuts are normally different thread direction on each side of the car, so that braking forces tighten the nut (if there is any movement). If they're all the same direction, that really is not smart.

Meanwhile in other news, Ford sticking with it, at least until the end of 2024.

Now that's something I wasn't aware of, so the pit crew have to change gun rotation direction for each side of the car, right hand thread on the left side and left hand thread the right side?

[Ares]

With GT cars... the guns are left and right, the torque setting of the guns are opposite to each other. More torque pressure to remover the nuts, and less doing them up. Get that wrong, you wont get the nuts off. where are the safeties?

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Now that's something I wasn't aware of, so the pit crew have to change gun rotation direction for each side of the car, right hand thread on the left side and left hand thread the right side?

Yep - that's how it works - the guns have the torque kicked up to give a "hit" coming off as well, to assist with heat effect of different metals, built up brake dust etc that tens to make the nut a bit resistant.

Originally Posted by Ares

With GT cars... the guns are left and right, the torque setting of the guns are opposite to each other. More torque pressure to remover the nuts, and less doing them up. Get that wrong, you wont get the nuts off. where are the safeties?

Totally - same on any centre lock race car I've had anything to do with. Back in them olden days (before the guns were quite so sophisticated) we used to spend a fair bit of time getting the line pressures and gun setup right to match the torque load on the nuts that a torque wrench applied - so that new nuts going on were torqued to the same level.

[GreenMachine]

Originally Posted by Tourer

If that's true then someone has really mucked that up. Wheel nuts are normally different thread direction on each side of the car, so that braking forces tighten the nut (if there is any movement). If they're all the same direction, that really is not smart.

I can't believe that it is true.

If it is, it reflects incredibly poorly on the competence and professionalism of the regulators and the teams. This is not rocket science, it is not new.

Then again, if they can't get something as novel as a steering rack right, anything is possible ...

[bluesport]

[QUOTE=Tourer;4177514]Yep - that's how it works - the guns have the torque kicked up to give a "hit" coming off as well, to assist with heat effect of different metals, built up brake dust etc that tens to make the nut a bit resistant.
The guns we used at work could be switched from left to right, is this the case with supercars or do they have separate guns for each side of the car?

[Ares]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Yep - that's how it works - the guns have the torque kicked up to give a "hit" coming off as well, to assist with heat effect of different metals, built up brake dust etc that tens to make the nut a bit resistant.
Totally - same on any center lock race car I've had anything to do with. Back in them olden days (before the guns were quite so sophisticated) we used to spend a fair bit of time getting the line pressures and gun setup right to match the torque load on the nuts that a torque wrench applied - so that new nuts going on were torqued to the same level.

Yes, those old guns were something you would rather see on an Oilrig than at a racetrack these days. There was a reason they had two handles. IndyCar and GT3 cars use a similar system these days. A tapered and finned locking cap. The gun socket has fingers that engage the fins in the cap, the cap stays connected to the socket with magnets. The guns are not much bigger than a NASCAR Thunder gun, and nicely balanced in the hand, and light. If you order a two or four gun kit, you can specify all righthand thread or left & right, they will come marked. Not all center lock cars are left and right threaded. The rule of thumb is to tighten the nuts to the rear of the car on a R&L car. You may remember the early cars that used the safety pins? If you didn't have all of them in, a fastidious Marshall could stop the car at the end of the fast lane and wouldn't let the car on track. They would look to see the pins flapping on the end of the axels.

[Ares]

Running different cars with different center lock systems can get very confusing, especially if you are being moved to different positions on the cars. It could be many months since you worked on a particular car. You are second guessing the gun directions all the time. I always would give the gun a last second test, to check the direction and check the bottles been turned on. The last thing you want to hear is silence when you pull the trigger. If the nut doesn't shift in the first one to two seconds after you hit it, you think **** I'm going the wrong way. After about five seconds you have a big decision to make. You really don't want to be tightening a hot sticky wheel nut. Good fun mixed with a lot of stress.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by bluesport

The guns we used at work could be switched from left to right, is this the case with supercars or do they have separate guns for each side of the car?

Separate guns for each side - set to undo with a high torque kick. As Ares says, they're really specialised and remarkably light compared to the regular pneumatic rattle guns you'd see in most automotive workshops.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Separate guns for each side - set to undo with a high torque kick. As Ares says, they're really specialised and remarkably light compared to the regular pneumatic rattle guns you'd see in most automotive workshops.

Good idea to have separate guns for each side.

[mite5255]

https://www.facebook.com/watch?v=2240785799446251

[mite5255]

https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/09/27...Tj6fYcd29Eqwok

[V8 Fireworks]

A Tickford Engineering steering rack is running on car #55.
https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/tickford...steering-rack/

If that replaces the Sportech Engineering part as the control part (tender contract specifics permitting), that would be a nice little earner for Tickford!

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Casper

As for the current parity hoopla you can't run a 4 valve motor against a two valve motor and expect anything else than the problems it has created

Why weren't Chevrolet mandated to use the Northstar engine?!

It's very similar to the Modular or Coyote and is clearly the logical choice.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Why weren't Chevrolet mandated to use the Northstar engine?!

It's very similar to the Modular or Coyote and is clearly the logical choice.

I was thinking this engine in the corvette.

https://www.enginelabs.com/news/gm-a...t-plane-crank/

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Why weren't Chevrolet mandated to use the Northstar engine?!

It's very similar to the Modular or Coyote and is clearly the logical choice.

Is Northstar a current GM engine? 4V, DOHC engines aren’t necessarily the best engines in a rev-limited racing environment & those doing the homologation for the Camaro know that.

Alternative question would be why Ford didn’t continue with a pushrod engine after running one in the category for 30 years, or continue to support the original plan for their engine to be the category engine?

Think it’s a case of a hard place & a rock standing off. Was always going to take some finessing to equalise the engines.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Is Northstar a current GM engine? 4V, DOHC engines aren’t necessarily the best engines in a rev-limited racing environment & those doing the homologation for the Camaro know that.

Alternative question would be why Ford didn’t continue with a pushrod engine after running one in the category for 30 years, or continue to support the original plan for their engine to be the category engine?

Think it’s a case of a hard place & a rock standing off. Was always going to take some finessing to equalise the engines.

Ford doesn't have a comparable pushrod engine to use do they?

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Ford doesn't have a comparable pushrod engine to use do they?

Honestly don’t know but they did up to this year. I know those were purpose built race motors but I expect that something could have been worked out.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Think it’s a case of a hard place & a rock standing off. Was always going to take some finessing to equalise the engines.

Put simply so everyone can understand the problem the torque curve for both is diametrically opposed, the two valve pulls better at low RPM and the four valve pulls better where the two valve starts falling over. Give the Ford a higher RPM limit and a different final drive ratio and there will be equality on the race track. Mixer will go bananas but stuff happens because he clearly has no idea of the problems presented by the two motor configuration and for that matter a lot of others as well. Thanks for reading, go and do some research on the differences between the two basic designs and come to your own conclusions.

[Mixer]

Ford knew all this **** going into it.

So why did they backflip on category engine?

All their engine issues are their folly.

And the irony of Ford apologists accusing ME of meltdowns is comical.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Ford knew all this **** going into it.

So why did they backflip on category engine?

All their engine issues are their folly.

And the irony of Ford apologists accusing ME of meltdowns is comical.

You need to come to grips with the fact that it isn't easy to obtain technical parity with the two different engine specifications.