[Rumours] Porsche & Volkswagen Group considering entering F1

[crmalcolm]

But, the BBC are reporting that it is a done deal:

"Speaking at an event in Wolfsburg, where VW is based, Diess added that Porsche's preparations were more concrete than Audi's, without specifying details.

Porsche is said by F1 insiders to be preparing an alliance with Red Bull."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/61300470

[Richard C]

While articles are saying or implying its "done", I would say its nearly done. That while thing could go south, it's highly likely it will proceed as we all anticipate at this point.

If you read the articles, you will see the VAG approval is contingent upon the 2026 power unit regulations. Which have not yet been finalized. And no doubt there is a specific set of expectations that VAG has regarding those specifications.

But while those have not been formally published as "final", I suspect negotiations are done and this is a bit of a dance between VAG and F1 with F1 giving VAG what they want, but not formalizing it just yet and probably asking VAG for a substantial "statement of intent" which is probably the VAG board approving this, but with the contingency on the regulations (which they have just done). I would then expect to see the 2026 regulations move toward a conclusion quickly and then once published (or announced as finalized), then VAG will make a more formal and affirmative announcement (with a larger PR splash) that does not include contingent conditions.

IMHO, the fat lady has just cleared her throat and is just about to sing.

Richard

[crmalcolm]

I think the overall situation is summed up in Andrew Benson's article:


'Last year, then Porsche Motorsport vice-president Fritz Enzinger told BBC Sport the company was again considering an entry, as long as the new engine rules went in a way that suited it.

This is now the case. F1's new engine will run on fully sustainable fuels - a non-negotiable requirement for a VW Group entry - and will make electric power a greater proportion of the overall output of the engine than is currently the case.

Last month, the VW Board approved in principle the idea of Porsche and Audi entering F1, once the engine rules were confirmed.

F1 has not yet fully defined the engine regulations but the overall direction of travel is clear.'

[FIRE]

I prefer both in WEC/Le Mans.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I think the overall situation is summed up in Andrew Benson's article:

I can't disagree. It's also pretty much as I (and everyone else) has said when you go beyond the headlines. But at the same time, it's the semi-clickbait headline which bothers me. It know it's a bit pedantic and maybe unrealistic of me to expect the headlines to not be stretching the truth a bit. But it still gets on my nerves.

Some headlines from today on this topic...
"Audi and Porsche will join Formula 1, says Volkswagen chief Herbert Diess" (Skysports)
"Porsche and Audi are both going to enter Formula 1 in 2026" (Ars Technica)
"Porsche, Audi set for 2026 F1 entry" (Racer)
"VW Boss Says Audi and Porsche Approved for Formula 1 Entry" (Car and Driver)
"Audi, Porsche to join Formula One, VW CEO says" (Reuters)
"VW to give green light for Audi, Porsche to enter F1 - sources" (Reuters)
"Audi and Porsche to enter Formula 1" (BBC Sports)

Some are better ("approved entry", "give green light", "set for") than others ("to enter", "to join"). Again, very pedantic differences. While it is nearly a done deal, it is NOT a done deal. I DO expect it to be announced as a done deal very soon. I wonder what the headlines will be then? "VAG confirms entry to F1 in 2026?" I think if this was a silly season driver switch conversation, we all would be looking for more "confirmation" vs "its about to happen" type of information. But it's a slow F1 news day, so they run with what they have.

Richard

[Mike Harte]

And what is not being emphasised is that, if they do "enter" F1, it will be as partners to other teams, and not forming their own teams. Possibly that is being pedantic on my part, but there is a huge difference between the two entities.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

And what is not being emphasised is that, if they do "enter" F1, it will be as partners to other teams, and not forming their own teams. Possibly that is being pedantic on my part, but there is a huge difference between the two entities.

Andrew Benson: "Audi will come in as a team and has been linked with buying out an existing entrant."

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Andrew Benson: "Audi will come in as a team and has been linked with buying out an existing entrant."

And Jonathan Noble in Autosport writes:

"Porsche has been most strongly linked to a tie-up with Red Bull, as Diess confirmed the company’s plans were more ‘concrete’ than Audi, which has not yet settled on a partner."

So, who is right?

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

And Jonathan Noble in Autosport writes:

"Porsche has been most strongly linked to a tie-up with Red Bull, as Diess confirmed the company’s plans were more ‘concrete’ than Audi, which has not yet settled on a partner."

So, who is right?

Maybe it's just me but I find the thought of Red Bull grabbing the Porsche deal very unattractive!

[tux]

Boring tho really isnt it? I mean, they arent bringing more cars to the grid, they're just renaming existing teams.

[Asa]

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...er-2022-02-25/

FYI, Porsche will IPO this year. The IPO is expected to generate a whooping US$10 billion. Obviously Porsche executives will remain but the company will then become independent of VW Group. So Porsche and Audi will not be under the same group anymore. Similar to how Ferrari and Alfa Romeo are now.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Asa

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...er-2022-02-25/

FYI, Porsche will IPO this year. The IPO is expected to generate a whooping US$10 billion. Obviously Porsche executives will remain but the company will then become independent of VW Group. So Porsche and Audi will not be under the same group anymore. Similar to how Ferrari and Alfa Romeo are now.

Intersting choice of term 'will IPO this year' - when the article headline reads 'Porsche could IPO in fourth quarter'.

Other articles only refer to the IPO as a plan, not an agreed future (yet), with phrases such as - 'Porsche is considering an IPO to fund its move into F1 and development of electric vehicles. An IPO could come as early as Q4 2022.' and 'as Volkswagen prepares for a possible listing of Porsche AG planned for the fourth quarter of this year'.

[Casper]

Some time ago it was reported that there were personalities in both camps that made relationship between the two impossible. Has this passed now?

Originally Posted by chunterer

Maybe it's just me but I find the thought of Red Bull grabbing the Porsche deal very unattractive!

[ArnageWRC]

Originally Posted by FIRE

I prefer both in WEC/Le Mans.

I'm the same; Sportscars are where both belong, it's a better fit for both companies.....

F1 is just a pursuit of burning money.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by ArnageWRC

I'm the same; Sportscars are where both belong, it's a better fit for both companies.....

F1 is just a pursuit of burning money.

But not non-sustainable un-renewable money!

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by FIRE

I prefer both in WEC/Le Mans.

Le Mans is my favourite race in the world but the rest of the WEC has always been and will always be completely invisible to all but a small number of enthusiasts.
If the cost of developing and running a F1 engine was within the motor sport budget of a manufacturer the publicity generated would dwarf that of running a WEC team.
Who do you think gets the most publicity out of motor racing at the moment Mercedes or Toyota?

[S griffin]

The VW have been hinting at entering for a long time. I still will believe it when I see it, although it wouldn't rule them out either

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by S griffin

The VW have been hinting at entering for a long time. I still will believe it when I see it, although it wouldn't rule them out either

VW is entering!

But with Audi and Porsche!

[S griffin]

Yes, but nothing has been confirmed yet. So I’m still not going to believe it 100% till it’s set in stone. I’ve seen this business too long of manufacturers and team promising to enter and they don’t

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Le Mans is my favourite race in the world but the rest of the WEC has always been and will always be completely invisible to all but a small number of enthusiasts.
If the cost of developing and running a F1 engine was within the motor sport budget of a manufacturer the publicity generated would dwarf that of running a WEC team.
Who do you think gets the most publicity out of motor racing at the moment Mercedes or Toyota?

Well, right now, definitely Mercedes.....

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Le Mans is my favourite race in the world but the rest of the WEC has always been and will always be completely invisible to all but a small number of enthusiasts.
If the cost of developing and running a F1 engine was within the motor sport budget of a manufacturer the publicity generated would dwarf that of running a WEC team.
Who do you think gets the most publicity out of motor racing at the moment Mercedes or Toyota?

That's an interesting point. In the 60's and 70's it was NOT like that. But a certain trader from London took the reins of F1 and at that time it was mentioned that F1 needed to be escalated in priority as that was the 'pinnacle' of the sport.
The 'Constructors championship' was born and the importance of 'Manufacturers' in F1 motorsport was diminished.....
Until some French ones decided that they would try F1 but to compete with Ford/Cosworth was better if they used a turbocharged motor and from there others became interested.

What we now have is a WDC that really is determined by the success of those chasing the constructors championship and sports car endurance racing which should really be field of endeavour of manufacturers is as quiet as a mouse except for a few historic races, like Le Mans, Sebring and Daytona.

There would be a completely different approach if endurance racing really became the seat of manufacturer participation.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

What we now have is a WDC that really is determined by the success of those chasing the constructors championship and sports car endurance racing which should really be field of endeavour of manufacturers is as quiet as a mouse except for a few historic races, like Le Mans, Sebring and Daytona.

There would be a completely different approach if endurance racing really became the seat of manufacturer participation.

From time to time, sportscar racing has had a lot of manufacturers. It's obviously a more cost-effective form of motorsport than Formula 1, especially in GTE and DPi with the balance of performance systems. Albeit, as you say, with a lower return.

Nevertheless a midpack F1 operation can easily be the best sportscar operation (Toyota Motorsport GMBH), especially when they are only racing against privateers or rebadged customer cars (Alpine).

[Richard C]

With the approval of the new 2026 Power Unit regulations, I expect there to be public announcements and fanfare around Porsche entering F1.

I saw on Reddit regarding Porsche trademarking "F1nally". No doubt as part of their return to F1 marketing strategy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/co...nal_trademark/

Richard

[S griffin]

If this doesn't get Porsche into F1, I think nothing else will

[chavez]

Originally Posted by S griffin

If this doesn't get Porsche into F1, I think nothing else will

Hopefully if they do enter, it will be significantly better planned and managed than their last disastrous effort.