Earnhardt Jr. crash

[Mags]

Well, what more can you say.

[avsfan733]

Sadly though the people who mentioned thigns about tv coverage weren't lidding...ESPN covered the crash, then went on to baseball and the shaq trade...O and NASCAR Busch series practice I believe

[Bob Riebe]

Originally posted by JohnSSC
She did, she won a large award which was chopped down severely on review, but not before her case gets "quoted" left and right without bothering to check the facts.

Stella Liebeck is the individual who sued McDonalds. She was burned by coffee served at 180 - 190 degrees which can cause a 3rd degree burn in 2 - 7 seconds. Her burns were over 6 percent of her body and required 2 years of treatment including skin grafts. McDonald's refused an offer to settle for $20,000 in medical costs.

From 1982 to 1992 MCDonald's coffee burned 700 others, some slightly, some more seriously resulting in a number of other suits.

Stella was awarded $200,000 in compensatory damages which was reduced 20% to $160,000 to take into account her own negligence. She was awarded $2.7 million in punitive damages which the judge reduced to $480,000.

Stella and Ms. Liebeck then settled out-of-court for an undisclosed sum.

This information, which took me about 2 minutes to find via a Search Engine near you is available at: www.StellaAwards.com.

Mods, this is a verifiable item and I believe in no way places the Forum in any legal jeopardy.

To anyone else, before quoting the "urban legend" as fact, often a quick search will surface the true story and lead you to what is actually an interesting free site.

Coffee is supposed to be served hot, yes hot enough to cause burns.
For her to get over one half million dollars for her own stupidity, does make the courts and lawyers look like self-righteous and greedy fascists.(I abstain from commenting on the jury. )
I knew the million dollar award was reduced but not to the zero sum it should have been.
Bob

PS-Did she also file suit against herself and settle out of court.

Stella and Ms. Liebeck then settled out-of-court for an undisclosed sum.

[JohnSSC]

Well Bob, we are waaaaay off topic by now and I have done enough of the heavy lifting research-wise for one thread so you are just going to have to check it out on your own!!

Back on topic: NASCAR has had a long tradition of casualness about the whole driver safety thing. I remeber how drivers who wore full-face helmets were looked at as "odd" for wearing such a contraption.

Even now you rarely see a driver with nomex underwear or a balaclava. Pretty apalling when you figure they are flying around out there surrounded by concrete and 40 other cars.

It is a shame Jr didn't have the right gear on but I am not surprised.

[Cadete]

Junior of all people should wear allways all the gear. As was mentioned in this thread, his father was killed in an accident and he wasn't wearing all the recomended (not obligatory, sadly) safety equipment.

Perhaps now he will be more carefull, and I hope this doesn't damage ALMS reputation. But then again, there are too many people out there in this world who think the best part in motor racing are the accidents....

[JohnSSC]

And sorry - it was "happy fingers" for me - Stella and McDonalds did settle out of court, that should read.

[kdr]

Originally posted by Cadete
Perhaps now he will be more carefull, and I hope this doesn't damage ALMS reputation. But then again, there are too many people out there in this world who think the best part in motor racing are the accidents....

agreed...in some forms of motorsport an accident packed race seems to be required by some to make it a "wow thats what we watch xyz for".

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by avsfan733
Sadly though the people who mentioned thigns about tv coverage weren't lidding...ESPN covered the crash, then went on to baseball and the shaq trade...O and NASCAR Busch series practice I believe

I don't think that the Busch Series ran last weekend, but I don't follow NASCAR....

The only reason why I know that is because Robin Miller went on an open-wheel rant on "Windtunnel" on Monday, in which he critcized OWRS for not racing at all this past weekend, and the IRL for running on Saturday Night instead of Sunday afternoon....because NASCAR and Busch had the weekend off....and those series should run on "Any" Sunday that NASCAR and Busch take off in his opinion...

Off topic, but Robin needs to take some Ex-Lax....he has a serious kink somewhere in his colon....

[SFoWPR]

So, a number of people, none of whom know Dale Earnhardt Jr personally or have contacted DEI, have now not only decided that he will sue, but the disposition of the lawsuit. This scenario seems to be based on (1) mind-reading, (2) a report of what someone says a newspaper reported someone said about what someone else was wearing, and second-hand reports from "journalists" who pride themselves on reporting only part of the story.

The Internet at its finest.

[paul-collins]

Originally posted by SFoWPR
This scenario seems to be based on (1) mind-reading, (2) a report of what someone says a newspaper reported someone said about what someone else was wearing, and second-hand reports from "journalists" who pride themselves on reporting only part of the story.

To be fair, Dave, it wasn't "a report of what someone says a newspaper reported someone said about what someone else was wearing," it was Jeffrey Hammond on FOX's and Speed's website.

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/nascar/12128/

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2587206

If we're to doubt him, please let us know.

[Nordic]

So, a number of people, none of whom know Dale Earnhardt Jr personally or have contacted DEI, have now not only decided that he will sue, but the disposition of the lawsuit. This scenario seems to be based on (1) mind-reading, (2) a report of what someone says a newspaper reported someone said about what someone else was wearing, and second-hand reports from "journalists" who pride themselves on reporting only part of the story.

I think the same report says something about him drinking a cup of Macdonalds coffee with one hand and trying to change gear at the same time, he spun as a result. Spilling some hot coffee on his leg, these caused the burns. Macdonalds are putting a defence team togeather as we speak and John Grisham will write the book, which will be turned into a film staring sly s as Dale jnr, we can then all sue him for crimes against moving making.

BTW.If he did sue, he may find it hard to every get a drive again, what team what wnat to run the risk?

[SFoWPR]

Sorry, Paul. I was simply paraphrasing what had been written above. I was most amused by the apparent determination that Jr. was going to file a law suit, and that he would lose it.

As a matter of fact, very few drivers have ever filed law suits. The suits have generally been filed by relatives (e.g. Donohue, Moore, etc.). The one suit of this type which I recall was Fabrizio Barbazza, and I'm not sure that one ever even made it to trial.

In many ways this subject relates back to the "Insurance" thread elsewhere.

[paul-collins]

No hard feelings I hope. I too see the similarities to the insurance thread, which (eerily) was started prior to the Sears Point weekend.

[Tim Northcutt]

Now that we have discussed "litigation, Hot Coffee, and Whether or not Someone will get Sued"

I want to go back to a point I raised in the "ALMS at Sears Point" thread that I feel was actually borne out on Sunday morning....


In that thread I stated that GM should have put a "better" NASCAR Road Racer with Boris in the Car....

Pick One of the Four:

Jeff Gordon
Tony Stewart
Robby Gordon
Kevin Harvick

Three for the four were born in California....

One of the four (J. Gordon) is worth almost as much as Dale Jr. per year in endorsements and visibility...he even has hosted "Saturday Night Live"....

Another (Stewart) also has been very visible in recent months...but for many wrong reasons....

But the point remains:

All four of them are MUCH better road racers than Dale Earnhardt, Jr.

MUCH better.....

and there probably wouldn't have even been a fire on Sunday morning...

because I would be more than willing to bet that at least 2 of those four (Stewart & R. Gordon) have enough diversified experience in other forms of racing that they would have kept the Corvette on the road....

a third...Jeff Gordon...has shown his skills on road courses and is a very smart race driver....he, too, probably would have kept the car on the track until the tires warmed up....

Harvick is an unknown...but he is a better road racer than Dale...based on NASCAR records, anyway....

[paul-collins]

What y'all are missing here is that DEI has hired Ron Fellows as a driver for road racing and coach for Dale Jr. This, coupled with the 2001 Daytona 24, are why Dale was in the car. I believe that Boris also has a role with DEI.

Dale is there not because Chevy wants him or P&M want him (which they do), but because he wants to be there.

I'd bet that if any of the others wanted to come over, there would be a seat in a Corvette waiting for them, too. But Dale will always get a seat because of his passion for the Corvette and longstanding association with P&M and others, as well as his skill and marketability.

[jhansen]

Excellent points paul-collins. I also was going to mention his relationship with Pratt and Miller. Don't see a law suit out of this one.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by jhansen
Excellent points paul-collins. I also was going to mention his relationship with Pratt and Miller. Don't see a law suit out of this one.

I do agree with both of you that he "wants" to be there..."

and I certainly don't see any lawsuits coming out of this....

But "Joon-Yehr" needs a lot more "instruction" from Ron Fellows and Boris before he tries to race in a "Major" sportscar series....

a LOT MORE instruction....

I'll leave it at that...

[jhansen]

He probably could use more practice. I never disputed that. But I would bet he is more skilled than a number of the "pay" drivers that are prevelant in the ALMS and LMES that don't get mentioned. I've seen a lot of "pro" road racers spin on cold tires. And I bet you have as well. It's a mistake, true, but it's not like it's beginners 101 driving either.

[Tim Northcutt]

I'll just say this:

I'm glad the ALMS got a lot of visibility out of Dale's visit to Sears Point (a track where, I believe, he has never finished in the Top Ten even in his own Series, but....)

I'm also glad that he was welcomed with open arms by the sportscar racing community

and finally,

I'm glad he was not hurt in the incident, and maybe he will actually wear all of his protective gear in the futre so that he won't risk burning up like a charred piece of meat if he ever has another fiery crash....

[paul-collins]

I'd say being less than two seconds off Ollie's pace on Friday in last year's car is indicative that he's ready to race. I don't know how he went on Saturday, but my understanding is he was less than 1.5 seconds off the fastest Corvette, and again, last year's car.

[Liam34]

So why were the corner workers not wearing their Proban suits then? I can't imagine UK marshal's would go out without Proban on?

[Liam34]

Sorry, re-reading that it looks like a dig at the corner-workers, it wasn't meant to be, it was meant as a genuine question to satisfy a curious mind.

[Kicking-back]

They're not compulsory.

[Woolley]

Originally posted by Liam34
So why were the corner workers not wearing their Proban suits then?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but it's run to a different system.

US, OZ and NZ run with 'firies' and 'flaggies' very separately, the firies being more like what we call Rescue. In comparison, we tend to be more multi-tasking.

In which case, the marshals you see there would be flags and comms, and equipped as such. People with extinguishers will be a little more remote (although it's getting that way here sometimes).

For Champ Car, Simple Green cover everything, even on a road course, and the instruction to incident marshals is 'you don't go over the wall unless instructed'

Each way of working has it's pros and cons. For this type of incident (and that was one scary fire) I think ours is better providing you have sufficient marshals, and on the whole I suspect we ususally run with much higher numbers. A similar fire I attended at Mallory some years ago was extinguished in under 16 seconds as half a dozen or more bottles were on the scene very quickly.

Having said all that, I thought the guys there dealt with a major incident very effectively, and the driver's injuries were entirely due to incorrect equipment for the job. If you race somewhere where the marshals will take longer to get there, but have more gear when they arrive, you'd better dress to be sitting in the flames for 30 seconds. It never ceases to amaze me that once a driver gets in a car with a roof he goes for an open helmet and limited balaclava, despite being at greater risk of being trapped in a burning car. And as for not having the full underwear...

[Mags]

Originally posted by Tim Northcutt
I'm also glad that he was welcomed with open arms by the sportscar racing community

You have got to be kidding. I think he was welcomed because of the publicity. I would have liked to talk to him, but we were told to stay AWAY from him. I got some great pictures of him, though!