The Future of Motorsport and Sportscars Role in it.

[AU N EGL]

So Juicy sushi which country do you live in? might help ppl understand your point of view if you put your country in your profile.

and I though one of the largest oil fields in the world just recently discovered in Alberta. Almost makeing the Mid East oil small by comparision.

Or are ppl upset that oil may come from the US and Canada in the near future, vs the Mid east??

[juicy sushi]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

So Juicy sushi which country do you live in? might help ppl understand your point of view if you put your country in your profile.

and I though one of the largest oil fields in the world just recently discovered in Alberta. Almost makeing the Mid East oil small by comparision.

Or are ppl upset that oil may come from the US and Canada in the near future, vs the Mid east??

actually, i'm from toronto in canada. and while the oil sands are large, they're not quite as big as you put it. but it's the process required to get the oil that's much of the issue.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/oilsands

^ this is a series of articles on the oils sands from the top canadian newspaper, and it explains the issue pretty well. suffice to say, it's not a free lunch.

i'm upset at the idea of continued dependence on fossil fuels and a civilization with an economy built on over-consumption, because i feel that the long-term consequences are disasterous (as demonstrated by previous civilizations), and because as GT-Four puts it, my impossible to debate belief in the man-made impact on the environment our society currently has, which developed as a result of reading extensively on the issue...

[porsche45]

Here's another article regarding "relavant racing."

http://www.autoextremist.com/fumes1/?currentPage=2

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

and I though one of the largest oil fields in the world just recently discovered in Alberta. Almost makeing the Mid East oil small by comparision.

Or are ppl upset that oil may come from the US and Canada in the near future, vs the Mid east??

I'm not sure that there has been any massive recent discoveries, though the known reserves has been recalculated upwards in 2006. If the recalculations are correct, yes they would be larger than the Middle East, but wouldn't make them small by comparison.

The differences being that the Oil in the Middle East is Sweet Crude, while the majority in Alberta and surrounding regions is Oil Sands or Heavy Oil. The costs to extract and refine Alberta fuels is a multiple of Sweet Crude, though the costs have come down over the years. A further problem has been the increase in Royalty taxes in Alberta, to 40% of NET REVENUES, when Oil is above $55 a barrel. When Oil is at the prices it is now, it is still very profitable.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by juicy sushi

so, your sports car or your steak bob, which are you willing to give up?...

No question, sports car!
There are other toys.

[Oldtony]

Perhaps there should be another thread where the Left Leaning Loony Leprechauns can debat the Rabid Retarded Redneck Ratbags and let discussion on sportscars proceed without interuption.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Perhaps there should be another thread where the Left Leaning Loony Leprechauns can debat the Rabid Retarded Redneck Ratbags and let discussion on sportscars proceed without interuption.

But then if middle of the road, moronic. meat-heads don't like it, don't read it.

[Graham Goodwin]

Or perhaps if you're one of those who has covered basically the same ground repeatedly through a thread you might consider not writing it.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

Or perhaps if you're one of those who has covered basically the same ground repeatedly through a thread you might consider not writing it.

Graham there is not one idea in this entire thread that is new, it is idealist vapors verses hard reality.
One merely chooses which side one thinks applies to the one.

By the way, your remark is the usual from you when you have no dog in the fight except possibly being a legend in your own mind.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by porsche45

Here's another article regarding "relavant racing."

http://www.autoextremist.com/fumes1/?currentPage=2

This thread, no matter which side of the issue on is on, is interesting reading.

One may decide what it means, as one chooses.
Bob

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Graham there is not one idea in this entire thread that is new, it is idealist vapors verses hard reality.
One merely chooses which side one thinks applies to the one.

By the way, your remark is the usual from you when you have no dog in the fight except possibly being a legend in your own mind.

I think I've made myself entirely clear on the issues under discussion and unlike others don't feel the need to repeat them again and again.

However since you seem to be liberally mixing your own opinions on the questions of sustainability, alternative fuels and their merits or otherwise in racing or elsewhere with your usual unhealthy dose of crude personal insults I guess I could do likewise - But I won't because a. It isn't polite, and b. I think that, delicate flower that you obviously are you might get upset.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

with your usual unhealthy dose of crude personal insults I guess I could do likewise - But I won't because a. It isn't polite, and b. I think that, delicate flower that you obviously are you might get upset.

Ah yes, how does that song go--"Tip-toe, through the tulips...."

[AU N EGL]

and if we cant laugh at ourselvs once in a while no matter what, we have no business on an internet forum.

[juicy sushi]

getting back on topic, did anyone else take note of the ACO 2008 chassis reg highlights posted on mulsanne mike's site?

the idea of using kinetic energy return as a way of balancing the performance struck me as interesting. i think though that it seems to imply it would be something ethanol/gasoline cars could employ, while diesels might be unable to. that would seem to me to be the wrong way to approach it, as diesel hybrids should be given an equal opportunity.

what about using energy return as a balance against fuel tank sizes? working on a formula balancing the level of energy recovery against potential energy in a fuel tank, so that teams/manufacturers using more energy return would have a smaller tank to balance it out against those less interested in using a hybrid?

and the LMP2 diesel size of 4.4 litres seems awful big. but the most interesting thing was that the ACO seem to want to work on the aerodynamics as a way of reducing the speed of the cars. i'd love to see the cars lose their rear wings, they'd look so much sleeker if they had to rely only on the underbody to generate downforce...

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by juicy sushi

ACO seem to want to work on the aerodynamics as a way of reducing the speed of the cars. i'd love to see the cars lose their rear wings, they'd look so much sleeker if they had to rely only on the underbody to generate downforce...

Take away the wings and the under-body, and you have a definite reduction in speed, especially in the corners where too much speed has the most detrimental effects.
Put on treaded tires and it would be a few years before being too fast was on anyones mind.
Bob

[jhansen]

Originally Posted by Mal

There is a very interesting article on Sportscarpros which discusses the future of Motporsport and its potential role in the development of green technology. John Brooks, the author, feels that if the sportscar racing rulemakers embrace it porperly there is a real chance that sportscars can return to the days that racing becomes part of a manufacturers R & D budget rather than justs its marketing budget.

What then does the ACO/FIA and IMSA have to do to embrace this, how will it works and do you consider it a good thing?

http://www.sportscarpros.com/notes-f...le/default.htm

This is the opening post of this thread. Keep it on topic people.

[old man]

Very basic question to those who know more than me, and there are a lot of those; what would be the result of setting a fuel tank size irrespective of what you put in it and limiting the number of times you can refill it?

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by old man

Very basic question to those who know more than me, and there are a lot of those; what would be the result of setting a fuel tank size irrespective of what you put in it and limiting the number of times you can refill it?

Ouch. Diesels get great milage vs petrol and the worst would be the E85 cars. E85 cars may have to stop close to twice as much as the petrol cars.

[GTfour]

@Juicy:

"and as another point, a large reduction in meat consumption (ie ending the industrial production of meat) would actually reduce human pollution levels more significantly than alternative fuels and more efficient transportation. it would also significantly enhance public health because the unsafe living conditions of industrial ranching require massive doses of antibiotics and other drugs for the animals, which leads to bacteria and viruses acquiring resistence to them, and then when they transfer over to humans, we have no ability to stop them" .......

Sure,a few billion people around the world who'll stop eating meat because of some carbondioxide fantasy...Were you on LSD when you came up with this?
This is in the same order as mad thinking as them scientist in the U.K.,who actually did research into the effects of our breathing and the contribution to carbondioxide levels in the air.
These loonies actually advised the government that it would greatly help if everyone would skip one of every four breaths....

As for limiting speeds by removing their wings,I don't think that'll be what the ACO envisions. Remember that nearly all high speed records for roadcars are being achieved with hardly any wings at all as to reduce drag to an absolute minimum. Take a look at the Bugatti veyron,were the rearwing actually retracts when going for a 250mph run. The 391km/h from the McLaren F1 is the same story,no wing.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by GTfour

This is in the same order as mad thinking as them scientist in the U.K.,who actually did research into the effects of our breathing and the contribution to carbon dioxide levels in the air.
These loonies actually advised the government that it would greatly help if everyone would skip one of every four breaths....

Lets see if I remember some plant biology, and I should I am a tree farmer.

That CO2 levels in the atmosphere are increasing, and that higher CO2 levels enhance plant growth. And that alone should be enough to make Mother Earth smile.

Stated simply:The process of photosynthesis consumes CO2, and produces O2 and carbohydrate. The ENERGY required to drive this reaction is obtained, of course, from light. The PROCESS can continue in the absence of light for some time, at least until the chemically-fixed energy derived from light is depleted. The process of respiration consumes O2 and carbohydrates, and produces CO2. Respiration is a continual process (albeit at differing rates), occurring in both light and darkness.

Oh my GOSH. CO2 production is GOOD for the earth.

[AU N EGL]

I apologizes to the moderators, but as well all find out that some times a little education is needed when certain issues come up.

Ok /OT

Yes Sports cars or just racing cars for manufactures helps them build better cars with new technogies.

[dj choc ice]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

I apologizes to the moderators, but as well all find out that some times a little education is needed when certain issues come up.

Ok /OT

Yes Sports cars or just racing cars for manufactures helps them build better cars with new technogies.

can you come to our school and educate the mickey mouse eco council for me?, im quite sick of their tosh that gets rammed down our throat now.

as for sportscar racing i think too much attention is being focused on being green, its only a trend but its a very worrying one that could seriously damage the sport in the long term.,

A formula similar to Group-C could be best for the sport but the way things are now with the ACO and safety and so on i doubt we will see a return to this kind of formula. I believe more of a push for competition by allowing the cars to run free regardless of fuel and engine size would do wonders for the sport, and at the same time could bring in some new fans.

while at the same time, the level of competitiveness goes up and also technologies get developed further, if only the ACO focused on the racing and left the whole "green" or as i call it 'greenwash' attitude to corrupt money grabbing politicians then things will improve, until then same old same old.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

can you come to our school and educate the mickey mouse eco council for me?, im quite sick of their tosh that gets rammed down our throat now.

FEAR and Fear of Lack( goods and servies) Fear of Loss( family, way of life), are the greatest forms of population Control and why govenments, educational instatutions and the Media use it constatly.

And if they say a non truth or a lye, long enough and many differnt ways, the people will belive it. Now who said that in 1938 Gemany ??

[TWK]

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

as for sportscar racing i think too much attention is being focused on being green, its only a trend but its a very worrying one that could seriously damage the sport in the long term.,

A formula similar to Group-C could be best for the sport but the way things are now with the ACO and safety and so on i doubt we will see a return to this kind of formula. I believe more of a push for competition by allowing the cars to run free regardless of fuel and engine size would do wonders for the sport, and at the same time could bring in some new fans.

while at the same time, the level of competitiveness goes up and also technologies get developed further, if only the ACO focused on the racing and left the whole "green" or as i call it 'greenwash' attitude to corrupt money grabbing politicians then things will improve, until then same old same old.

Ufortunately, the "green" direction is not going to go away. Certainly there has to be some sense in motorsport, but it seems to me that racing helps itself by positioning as a place where technological advance can take place - including alaternative fuels, and other advances that are defined "green."

Given the permanent world-wide focus, motorsport is more likely to be hurt by ignoring the trend than (sensibly) embracing it.

[old man]

Originally Posted by TWK

Given the permanent world-wide focus, motorsport is more likely to be hurt by ignoring the trend than (sensibly) embracing it.

This is the way we should approach the present situation and the regulators should find the most entertaining/exciting way of doing it