Croft BTCC - BBQ

[Motorsportgirli]

Nighthawk I was one of those playing football and im a regular crofty. We only do that when we know we have a break and also all jobs on post have been done. We kept the crowds entertained i suppose! But we had made sure our section was clear, bottles were in place and we all knew our teams and roles!

We have been known to break dance, row and body pop during breaks. We also played cricket at Copse corner during a break in the GP!

I was one of those playing football.

Im also glad you enjoyed the BBQ and i will be organising another one!

[Nighthawk]

I sort of Enjoyed watching you all play football - showed good sprits in the apalling weather . But dont Portray professionalism of our marshals to the TV especially considering what had already happened elsewhere on circuit.

[Motorsportgirli]

we were professional during the racing, thats what counts. I could assure you that not one of our guys stepped out of line during the racing.

we played football before the incident????, we played human skittles once during the break after the incident, what are you refering to what had happened on track?

[Nighthawk]

Incidents, Flag marshals in wrong places, Marshals hurt.

[Motorsportgirli]

ah it was post 12 who were playin football, i thought you were on about the guys at the hairpin

[warweezil]

Is a friendly kick about really a problem - with or without TV cameras present? Id be more concerned that the presence of the TV cameras is given too much consideration by the event management in terms of pressure to remain "on schedule" - after all it seems with the networks that... its OK for football matches to run very late, scheduling can accomodate that.

In my experience of managing a team of people (in industry) sometimes a little knock up with a ball... or any other "tension busting" interval can go a long way to building a team spirit, and can often bring out the best in a body of people.

At worst, the viewers would see that the guys and grils in orange are actually just "human", I dont see it reflecting in any way badly on motorsport in general or marshals in particular. As long as everything is "up to date", and in order, I really dont see the harm, especially if there is a long delay, boredom dulls the senses!

Just My Opinion... YMMV

[r.arthur]

i was on hairpin for weekend. the inbetween session fun was different and enjoyable. as soon as cars were on circuit we were normal marshals.

[tcb]

Hi Guys, Glad everyone was ok.
If it was the Cof C who said (No Red Flags) Can we all
note this idiots name and not marshal with him again.
He's playing with our lives.
I for one will not marshal at a BTCC meeting again.

[gachjoel]

Decided not to post that,
wording not correct

[stevedixon05]

Glad everyone had a good weekend,

I am sorry to hear of the events of yet another marshal injured, thats 2 in just as many months at croft now,

I can't honestly comment on the incident any further as I haven't seen the footage yet, still waiting to be viewed on V+ and I wasn't there.

I am glad Joe is ok and made an appearance, I hope the other injured party/parties are ok.

I'll have a watch later,

Steve

[ChrisA]

Originally Posted by tcb

Hi Guys, Glad everyone was ok.
If it was the Cof C who said (No Red Flags) Can we all
note this idiots name and not marshal with him again.
He's playing with our lives.
I for one will not marshal at a BTCC meeting again.

I'm sorry you feel this way, but this incident was an accident and we all know motor racing is dangerous. The red flag is used where there isn't a safety car available or the track is completely blocked. I understand the situation, and your anger at it, but as for boycotting the BTCC or meetings with that C of C this is a bit extreme. That could mean that you never do a BARC meeting again as they run a lot all over the country with the same clerks. I do feel for the marshals involved and hope that they recover quickly. Let's hope common sense prevails and get down to what we are good at...... MARSHALLING

[Nighthawk]

Well i would not call the CoC an idiot, Each circuit has its little ways and maybe the presence of TV (live) had something to do with this odd call.

WE are the ones playing with our own lives no one else is to blame after all we are all capable of making the right choice of what to do !!!

Yes it was post 12 playing football and correct me if i am wrong you wont see that happen at most other circuits in my book its a big NO.NO.

Let me say once again a big thankyou to Croft and its marshals you are all ok in my book good show.

[Steve Gibson]

Right O kick off time, I have read all the posts about the incident at Tower(post 8) and it seems that some people who were not there have decided that the marshals at croft are,
a) amateurish and need extensive training
b) ill disciplined
and the comment about red flags is misinterpreted, what was said, if you ask for a red flag you will not necessarily get one straight away, the final decision will be made by the C of C once all facts are considered.
My overview from being on the other end of the radio in race control is that maybe they reacted a little quickly, but think on this, what would have been said if they all stood back did nothing and the driver was seriously hurt then you all could have slagged them off for that instead. "BE DAMMED IF YOU DO or BE DAMMED IF YOU DON'T"
Post 8 reported that a car was in the barrier and would update us, after about 20 seconds he called for the safety car which was launched straight away, shortly after he reported anther car had gone off by which time the pack was bought under control by the safety car and Dr Trafford was at the back of the line we then got the call that a marshal was hurt and wanted it stopped I replied that medical was 10 seconds away and also then scrambled the rescue which was there in about 30 seconds, when Dr got there he confirmed that it needed stopping. Even if the red flag had been thrown at the first request we would not have been able to get medical assistance there any quicker.
As to the marshals playing football and other things and enjoying themselves, as long as they do the job when the racing is on what is wrong with enjoying themselves during "downtime" for those who criticise them, what do you do at the circuits where you marshal, stand with your thumbs up your butt's, afraid that some narrow minded people might criticise you!, by the way we even have a bit of a laugh in between races as well which helps to relive the pressure a bit.
And finally to "tcb" who ever you are, the idiot in charge did everything by the book and if you were ever able to see how "the idiot's in charge" operate you would certainly realise there is not an "idiot" amongst them!
And to sign off my one and only post on this subject, well done everyone for your efforts in very trying conditions and sticking to the task to the end.

[Micky.H]

Oulton Park GT meeting springs to mind, but we allways want to do our best and occasionally the adrenaline jumps in and we do something we shouldn't - the guys have put their hands up to it so let it be a lesson to us all (haven't we all occasionally said after an incident "maybe I shouldn't of done that")

Was the red flag comment tongue in cheek - wasn't at the front to hear it, but suspect it was, after the incident the other week and the comments about delayed red flags etc I cannot (hope not)belive that a red flag would be refused.

As for playing football, personal opinion a tad unproffesional (but i'd of most likely joined in!!!) but hey "lets get on telly", hasn't the British GP had football and Cricket?

Of concern to me to though:

a) was the post chief who delegated an un-graded IO in place of an experienced & graded IO with knowledge of the post, who then interfered in another posts incident causing confusion and too many bodies in the line of fire.

b) the IO who spent all weekend saying "I'm the IO and in charge", but then I didn't do the role of IO, and had a row with a another marshal in front of spectators and the media (now that was unproffesional).

But I'll be back (if allowed), as the guys and gals are a good bunch who i (generally) enjoy working with.

[Nighthawk]

I put my hands up and say this, i am not saying it is wrong to play football just that in all my marshalling time have never come across this before.

[motorsportmarshal61]

quote
b) the IO who spent all weekend saying "I'm the IO and in charge", but then I didn't do the role of IO, and had a row with a another marshal in front of spectators and the media (now that was unproffesional).

the IO is only has good has the marshals who work him or her
at the end of the day we all work has one we all look out for each other

[CombeMarshal]

Originally Posted by Steve Gibson

what would have been said if they all stood back did nothing and the driver was seriously hurt then you all could have slagged them off for that instead.

Just one thing to pick you up on that, and my biggest Marshalling gripe, only needs one Marshal to find out how a driver is, as were always told/tell others in briefings (which looks like this weekend at silverstone I will be giving a briefing to myself!) Look after yourself first, Other Marshals second, Driver third!

[Nighthawk]

well said......

[CombeMarshal]

Originally Posted by Micky.H

Of concern to me to though:

a) was the post chief who delegated an un-graded IO in place of an experienced & graded IO with knowledge of the post, who then interfered in another posts incident causing confusion and too many bodies in the line of fire.

If there was an experienced IO available then they should have been IO and perhaps spent the day with the Incident Marshal that was wanting to upgrade!

Originally Posted by Micky.H

b) the IO who spent all weekend saying "I'm the IO and in charge", but then I didn't do the role of IO, and had a row with a another marshal in front of spectators and the media (now that was unproffesional).

But I'll be back (if allowed), as the guys and gals are a good bunch who i (generally) enjoy working with.

Any problems should be sorted out of public/others site/hearing

[gachjoel]

As i wasn`t there and the tv footage is limited.
i`ve just been looking at the dvd recording i done.
From what i can see..
1 marshal opens door,correct side to chat to driver.
1 marshal stood next to him watching traffic and assisting.
2 marshals with fire bottles aswell who move to the front of the car.
is the reason for going to the other side of the car to kill the electrics ?

When the safety car was deployed and parked on the straight to pick up the leader,the doc`s car came past.
But at the scene there was already rescue members.

How many times do you sit down and have a 5 minute snooze between races.
No different to having a kick about.
everyone relaxes in different ways.

anyway at a recent F1 meet they were playing kick about whilst the race was on

[Mark Mitchell]

Originally Posted by NightHawk

i am not saying it is wrong to play football

Oh yes you are!

Originally Posted by NightHawk

Yes it was post 12 playing football and correct me if i am wrong you wont see that happen at most other circuits in my book its a
big NO.NO.

Originally Posted by Steve Gibson

As to the marshals playing football and other things and enjoying themselves, as long as they do the job when the racing is on what is wrong with enjoying themselves during "downtime" for those who criticise them, what do you do at the circuits where you marshal, stand with your thumbs up your butt's, afraid that some narrow minded people might criticise you!, by the way we even have a bit of a laugh in between races as well which helps to relive the pressure a bit.

Hear Hear!

[CombeMarshal]

I'm pretty sure the electrics are on the drivers right on the bmw's, but even if not, they can be turned off inside the car by the driver, like he did when visiting us at Thruxton, or leave them is it's dangerous to get to.
Love to have the chance to snooze between sessions, have to wait for the F1 for that!!!

I think what can be learned from this is, try to get drivers attention, give them the thumbs up and he should repeat it back, sometimes there not in a rush to get out as they are on the radio to the team!! And always remember, one car went off there. so may another, and another ( like that GT crash!) only go out when it is safe, as a great man once said "Live long and prosper!"

[marshal_man]

I wouldnt call the C of C an idiot, if he was then why would he be doing it for the biggest series in UK.

To be honest now you have said that i dont think he will want you marshalling the BTCC anymore.

Adrenaline does kick in your right, but Jelley had just crashed, it kicked in but people panicked.

When people panic your bound to get things wrong happen.

There is definatley a training need there.

[ChrisA]

PANIC!!!!!! That's the last thing we need.

[Stephen Green]

I think this whole issue is in danger of becoming a public slanging match!

If marshals wish to play football, cricket or any other game between sessions, then as long as all other jobs are done and the circuit is clear then personally I have no axe to grind. Even at the GP we have our light hearted moments so if we can do it there then why not at other circuits? Obviously we need to excercise a little common sense but some light hearted fun never hurt anyone in my opinion.

Steve Gibson has made some extremely sensible and valid points. It wouldn't be the first time I have been to an Observers briefing and been told light heartedly not to ask for a red flag. It's a light hearted way of saying the meeting is running to a very tight time table as much as anything else.

The decision whether to deploy a red flag is taken by the Clerk of the Course as I think Al said in an earlier post, whether we agree with the decision he/she makes is of little importance. The Observer/Post Chief will have made the request and then the responsibility is passed to the C of the C, end of story.

I do agree that seeing a yellow flag marshal trackside and not at his post was a little worrying and I would hope the error of his ways was pointed out in a post incident debrief.

We should all sit back and draw breath for a moment. Marshals have a job to do as do the senior officials in Race Control; to call any C of the C an idiot is in itself idiotic, however, if you choose not to work with a certain official then it is your right not to volunteer, although I do think it's being rather short sighted.

The nett result is that lessons have been learnt and thankfully no-one was seriously hurt. I often say to trainee marshals when on post with me, the best way to learn is through experience. The guys who went trackside and were almost seriously hurt will have learnt that for themselves and it will stick in their mind for many years to come. I suspect they will be quick to pass that information on to others as well.

Surely as a team of like minded people we should be looking at what we can do to improve safety or different ways of minimising risk, rather than tearing shreds out of each other?