What would you do to the WTCC? - Page 4

racer69 · 6 Jul 2010, 11:47 (Ref:2722555)

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

There is a set of regulations that's appropriate for all countries - NGTC. In the same way Super 2000 was before the costs went through the roof.

What good would NGTC or Super 2000 be to Australia? Our big sellers down here are the big Falcon's and Commodore's.

I don't see how NGTC is appropriate for a world formula with all the spec parts... the control engine in particular would be a major drawback to manufacturers entering

AndyS · 6 Jul 2010, 11:51 (Ref:2722558)

Quote:

Originally Posted by racer69

What good would NGTC or Super 2000 be to Australia? Our big sellers down here are the big Falcon's and Commodore's.

My point exactly about having a set of blanket rules worldwide that cover all countries. Different parts of the World like and drive different things.

touring fan01 · 6 Jul 2010, 12:05 (Ref:2722562)

Quote:

Originally Posted by racer69

... the control engine in particular would be a major drawback to manufacturers entering

I dont know why people keep on saying there is a control engine in NGTC when there is no such thing.

Any and every team can develop and build their own engine !!

But if they don't want to do their own engine then they have the option of leasing or buying the TOCA engine.

Simples!

**FIRE** · 6 Jul 2010, 17:03 (Ref:2722676)

Quote:

Originally Posted by racer69

I don't see how NGTC is appropriate for a world formula with all the spec parts... the control engine in particular would be a major drawback to manufacturers entering

TC2000 has a spec engine...but still official factory teams from Honda, Toyota, Chevrolet, Ford, Fiat, Renault and Peugeot.

EDIT And like touring fan01 says: NGTC allows to develop your own 2L turbo engine.

Sodemo · 6 Jul 2010, 18:31 (Ref:2722716)

I am concerned we will lose the current "growl" from the NA 2-litre units.

Does the NGTC engine (in say Pinkney or Jordan's car) sound like an WRC engine or does it still have that trademark supertouring-like sound?
This video has it at about 29 seconds...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTO-8...os=WOUx8uiMKx8

racer69 · 7 Jul 2010, 08:00 (Ref:2722912)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyS

My point exactly about having a set of blanket rules worldwide that cover all countries. Different parts of the World like and drive different things.

I'm an advocate of a formula that encompasses all cars, rather than either A) saying its all too hard and leaving each to their own, or B) forcing small engines on everyone

Quote:

Originally Posted by touring fan01

I dont know why people keep on saying there is a control engine in NGTC when there is no such thing.

Any and every team can develop and build their own engine !!

But if they don't want to do their own engine then they have the option of leasing or buying the TOCA engine.

Simples!

Thats fair enough, i'll admit i was wrong. The way it was explained to me a while back it sounded like a control engine was required.... will there be F1-style 'engine parity' to keep the TOCA engine in play though?

mattt · 7 Jul 2010, 10:41 (Ref:2722979)

Quote:

Originally Posted by racer69

Thats fair enough, i'll admit i was wrong. The way it was explained to me a while back it sounded like a control engine was required.... will there be F1-style 'engine parity' to keep the TOCA engine in play though?

Nope

Alan Gow has said it will remain competitive but will not have to be equal

AndyS · 7 Jul 2010, 12:02 (Ref:2723010)

Quote:

Originally Posted by racer69

I'm an advocate of a formula that encompasses all cars, rather than either

Would certainly give us some variety, it would be interesting to see all the different shapes and sizes and combinations running together. Trouble is with manufacturer involvement I could see it turning into a nightmare with the performance balancing they would insist on and the subsequent politics. Look at the problems they have already with the TDi's. They'd need to seriously review the tracks they use as well, making sure there is plenty of variety to ensure the lesser powered smaller cars had a chance. They'd have to avioid too many power circuits where the bigger stuff would drive off into the distance.

duke_toaster · 7 Jul 2010, 16:20 (Ref:2723103)

Quote:

Originally Posted by racer69

I'm an advocate of a formula that encompasses all cars, rather than either A) saying its all too hard and leaving each to their own, or B) forcing small engines on everyone

In all apart from a small minority of markets 2000cc with forced induction is not a small engine. Even in the case of Australia, the two bestselling cars are the Toyota Corolla and Mazda 3. Australia had the normal touring car rules for its top level championship until it effectively turned the series in to a closed shop two manufacturers as their road cars were too low-tech to compete.

I Rosputnik · 29 Jul 2010, 17:45 (Ref:2735346)

Here's a thought I feel like tossing up. Say if the WTCC went with V8 engines, but to allow in a wide range of different manufacturers, they allowed them to create their own V8 engine just for the series.

What would you think about this?

For example, Peugeot 508 with a custom built V8 engine just for the series.

duke_toaster · 29 Jul 2010, 17:49 (Ref:2735349)

No reason for WTCC to go V8, the manufacturers don't really build them. If you want more power turbos are the future.

**FIRE** · 29 Jul 2010, 18:58 (Ref:2735383)

The manufacturers have chosen to go 1.6L turbo so assume there's no interest at the manufacters.

NaBUru38 · 31 Jul 2010, 13:48 (Ref:2736349)

DTM, Superstars, Top Race can have any engine, because it's about the show and the brands, not about real cars. But proper production-based touring cars will have small engines from now on.

Sodemo · 31 Jul 2010, 14:10 (Ref:2736371)

BMW doesn't have any petrol turbos in their range do they?

**FIRE** · 31 Jul 2010, 14:49 (Ref:2736398)

3L twin turbo

Valenok · 31 Jul 2010, 16:12 (Ref:2736487)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRE

3L twin turbo

V8 4,4L and many others - in near future (as they promise)

**FIRE** · 31 Jul 2010, 16:36 (Ref:2736503)

I assume they bring also small turbo engines (e.g. 1.6L turbo for 1 Series)

NaBUru38 · 31 Jul 2010, 22:22 (Ref:2736751)

That's the point: the near future is about turbocharged four-cylinders - at least in Europe. But in the United States, the new Explorer has a 2.0L 200hp unit and the Cruze will have a 1.4L 140hp unit. Here in South America, we will probably keep producing two-valve naturally-aspirated engines as usual.

**FIRE** · 1 Aug 2010, 10:41 (Ref:2737115)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

That's the point: the near future is about turbocharged four-cylinders - at least in Europe. But in the United States, the new Explorer has a 2.0L 200hp unit and the Cruze will have a 1.4L 140hp unit. Here in South America, we will probably keep producing two-valve naturally-aspirated engines as usual.

I assume South America will follow the European trend to move to turbo engines. Maybe it will take a few years but it will happen.

NaBUru38 · 3 Aug 2010, 17:28 (Ref:2738876)

Brands established in Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay (Fiat, Ford, Chevrolet, VW and the French) try to squeeze every penny out of cars. For example, the old Uno is among the top 10 bestsellers and comes in lower specs without retractable seatbelts or rear headrests. Very little B-segment cars (Punto, Gol, Fox, Fiesta, etc) come with front airbags or anti-lock brakes as standard. And politicians won't get into the CO2 battle as in Europe. And people doubt of modern engines with ECUs, so they fear even more turbo engines (that includes diesels too). That's why I doubt we will get turbo gasoline engines soon.

I Rosputnik · 19 Aug 2010, 18:06 (Ref:2747241)

Just another way of looking at things and an expansion on the 1994 Donington WTCC thread. I've looked at the idea of having the WTCC as a cup rather then a championship. Looking at the 1994 WTCC round at Donington Park it had a different idea. It was more based around the idea of the best touring car teams from different national championships. Also say if you had the top five teams or something, you could have 15 teams with maybe 2 or 3 cars. So here's how I would look at it.

Increased importance on the ETCC, the forthcomming ATCC and having possibly the creation of a pan-american touring car championship with rounds in both North and South America.

The rounds would be positioned so that they didn't clash with national series so that teams who want to enter can.

Regs would be based on the most popular regs at the time.

As for the WTCC it would be come a 3 or 6 round cup with teams coming from the five best teams from last years international series and races set in one or two of the countries from the international series. This would rotate.

The only problem would be dates, money and politics.

redshoes · 19 Aug 2010, 18:24 (Ref:2747253)

Comparisons with the old World Cup are a complete red herring. That was based around inviting the best (manufacturer) teams for a one off event. At the time there were championships all over Europe all running (mostly) the same regulations and all with a number of works teams. That situation just doesn't exist any more. We had 8 works teams in the BTCC alone, I doubt there are that many works S2000 teams across the whole of Europe now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Rosputnik

Increased importance on the ETCC, the forthcomming ATCC and having possibly the creation of a pan-american touring car championship with rounds in both North and South America.

Forget S2000 or anything similar in North or South America, they aren't interested.

Quote:

Regs would be based on the most popular regs at the time.

Which is what currently? V8 stockcars in South America, NASCAR in North America, V8 Superstars in Italy, DTM in Germany, S2000/NGTC in Britain, BTCS in Belgium, V8Supercars in Australia. I don't believe there is a "most popular" set of regs that would work in more than one or countries.

I Rosputnik · 19 Aug 2010, 18:35 (Ref:2747256)

Well, I guess thinking out side of the box wouldn't work then. I've got my head in a different era. Still, it's worth chucking the idea around to see what will happen. I was thinking around the idea of having a large grid with a wider focus, without making national series feel like feeder series.

**FIRE** · 19 Aug 2010, 18:49 (Ref:2747264)

Maybe a WTCC Cup with V8 Supercars, S2000, DTM, TC2000, NASCAR, BTCS?
I am sure WTCC organizers can handle the performance balancing....

I Rosputnik · 19 Aug 2010, 19:01 (Ref:2747272)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRE

Maybe a WTCC Cup with V8 Supercars, S2000, DTM, TC2000, NASCAR, BTCS?
I am sure WTCC organizers can handle the performance balancing....

Epic post!