Rookie of the year 2001 is...

[Sato san]

[i] (fisi?) did it to Michael in Germany 00... on all these occasions..the "outcry" isn't as loud and rude as the whines from anti-Schumachers even when Michael din't actually take anybody out and is fair. [/B]

what a great debate is.....

but What exactly did Fisi do to Micheal at Geramny in 2000 ???..as i remember it Fisi was on the outside and Micheal try'd to take the line into turn 1. Micheal does his normal thing and expects the other driver to move out the way and let him have the line. Fisi never moved anywhere , where as Micheal clearly turned left into Fisi to try and take the quick line into turn 1. Micheal crashed into Fisi , certanly not the other way round.

just thought i'd add that to the discussion as it was mentioned earlier.

[Sato san]

so going back to the point. Montoya is clearly my rookie of the year.

[paulzinho]

With regards to Spa 2000, IMO it is down to the driver behind to avoid a collision, if he's alongside he isn't behind. My Dad taught me this in karting. If you exit a corner push the other guy out wide so that he gets to choose whether to lift or crash, its what racing drivers do. Obviously you don't turn in on him and hit him if hes neck and neck or ahead but if hes behind you put the squeeze. If theres a collision its the guys behind fault because he should have lifted instead of driving into said driver in front.

[Mr V]

i'm sorry paul but your dad may be right with turn up, pay and race karts that go 40 mph, but we're talking about drivers turning in one another at 200mph.there's alot of difference.

[paulzinho]

True, but the principle is the same. Why start in karts? It teaches drivers things. Look at JPM at Brasil. He got alongside, on the inside and pushed Schumi wide. OK at the end of the Kemel straight the situation is different but Mika only had one wheel alongside TGFs rear wheel, no way should Schumi give way, he holds the advantage, its up to Mika to get past. He was nearly there but not quite. The not quite being an important factor. Mika was quick enough next time round and was successful but he wasn't quite there. Schumi has the rigjht to defend postion just as Mika has right to try. But it is down to Mika in this case to decide if he should lift or drive into Schumi, if there was the option to take another line then he could try that but in this case there wasn't so he had to lift.

[senna12]

I believe JP was r.o.t.y. Barring mechanical/pit crew/Verstappen trouble, this question would not even be asked.

Although Kimi being able to basically match Nick for pace, with much less experience, was definitely noteworthy.

Its a shame we won't see Alonso in the Renault right away, but if Jenson isn't fantastic this year, he'll be gone, much like DC and Rubens.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by senna12
I believe JP was r.o.t.y. Barring mechanical/pit crew/Verstappen trouble, this question would not even be asked.

Although Kimi being able to basically match Nick for pace, with much less experience, was definitely noteworthy.

Its a shame we won't see Alonso in the Renault right away, but if Jenson isn't fantastic this year, he'll be gone, much like DC and Rubens.

1. jpm was rookie of the year

2. kimi is better than nick

3. jenson hasn't had as much time in F1 as dc and rubens, but will prove himself better than both!

[drexel]

I believe JP was r.o.t.y. Barring mechanical/pit crew/Verstappen trouble, this question would not even be asked.

Barring all the hype on monster, i don't think the question would be asked either.

Remember it's Rookie of the Year... not passing manouvre of the year.

[senna12]

Originally posted by drexel


Remember it's Rookie of the Year... not passing manouvre of the year.

Yes, I know. And I'll still vote for Juan. He could have possibly won at least 3 more races than he did, without the aforementioned troubles, not of his doing.

But if Kimi beats DC comprehensively, some of the more reluctant Raikonnen fans will have to admit he could be something really special as well. This can only be good for F1.

[Gt_R]

To Sato San...no i am not blaming Fisi for deliberately crashing into Michael...but just pointing out another example of a driver colliding with Michael and causing his retirement.

To Mrv, Michael but the squeeze, a rather gradual move, so that there is no danger, because Mika knows of the intent and would be prepared to back off when he decides he had reached the limit and couldn't get past.

To Damon...may i offer you a different view, just out of curiousity and independent of who i support... That perhaps JPM was being pressurised too hard by Michael for too many laps, and so when Michael made the move on the outside, JPM is too bothered to make sure he kept the position, that he missed or miscalculated his braking point? Rattled? Or just that JPM din't want to burst his ego and be overtaken on the outside by his greatest rival, thus opting to lose it all..?

When you watch the incident, i am sure that you did not fail to notice that Ferrari and Michael are clearly superior when it comes to braking as the Williams are encountering some problems. It is very obvious and undeniable when you watch the 2 cars through sky cam for a few laps prior to the incident. This is definitely known by both Michael and JPM too. Tape replays showed that JPM had braked at the same braking point, maybe even later, as Michael. Nothing wrong, you say... But remember, Michael is trying to outbrake JPM when attempting his move, which would mean that Michael is braking at the limit of his Ferrari. Now, JPM is on the inside line going into a tight corner, and with a car that JPM knows is having problems slowing down... there is no way JPM could have braked as late as Michael and get away with it. Now the point is...was JPM pressurised into making a mistake point...or that his do-or-die attitude to not want let his greatest rival overtake led to him to misjudge his braking point? You choose. Michael did not miscalculate much of the move. If JPM had braked within the limit of his car's capability at that time, Michael would have outbraked JPM and gotten through...but the only miscalculation is JPM is too much a racer... and for whatever reason, took the car beyond it's capabilities..and took both out.

I really don't see the need to blame a driver for that incident. But i'm most curious how that pure JPM fans actually always seem to love thinking that "JPM had rattled Michael" when the incident, if have anything to prove, showed otherwise. Like Michael, JPM is not perfect, and that as quoted, he is not immune "to do no wrong". In a very similar incident in France 98(?), the incident between DC and Michael (not the finger pointing one...but the one before), with Michael this time on the inside, many were actually blaming Michael...now what it seems is that Michael is on the bad end of things irregardless of facts.

I don't really blame JPM for the incident, because prior to that, he and Michael had really given a nice display of close racing. Barely a meter seperates the two, and a few side by side moments, really makes it a nice duel...so impressive that i can overlook this tiny incident...racing always does have racing incidents... but if there is a need for anybody to pull one on Michael for something that is clearly not his fault, we can always tear this issue apart.

To me, the incident only shows that Michael is not worried to take the fight to JPM, and that we are having a good fight on our hands...Com'on...enjoy it..

[Sato san]

im gonna enjoy it....it is great to finnally get some pure racing to the level of what Schumi and Montoya can give us.....they are both so highly talented...and were both the most impressive new drivers in their rookie years.

[Number Juan]

i think JPM purely on his results - one win 2 seconds etc. u can only think what Kimi would have done if in similar circumstances - thats like this year - what will he do? this'll be the toughest year of his career after such a storming season last year, he has to keep up with expectations.

[Red]

Originally posted by mr v
Schumacher was alongside Pablo at Austria, but on the outside, which gives Pablo the right to defend his corner[…]

As for Spa, i watched it today, and Mika's wheel was in line with Schumacher’s rear wheel,[…]

Waitaminute, you’re kidding, right?

[Damon]

GT_R, as ever you make some very interesting points. The great thing about F1 is that each and every incident will be seen differently by almost everyone that watches it, I will freely admit that my view will be somewhat biased in favour of JPM.

As I see it both men (at that point in the season) were putting each other under pressure to perform. For JPM, being overtaken on the outside would have undone all that he achieved by overtaking TGF in Brazil, he had a motive o keep Schumacher behind at all costs.

For Schumacher, having the oppotunity to overtake JPM around the outside soon after Brazil would have ended the talk of the king loosing his throne. He had a motive to get past with an impressive move. I feel that if it had been Hakkinen, Schumacher would have sat back and not tryed the move as against Mika he has nothing to prove.

[paulzinho]

I don't think he would have been thinking of that, JPMs tyres were going bad, TGF had a queue of cars behind him, I think he wanted to get past because he's a racing driver, same reason why JPM didn't want to let Schumi pass.

[Gt_R]

I tend to agree with Damon on his analysis of JPM's motive, not with Michael's.

I would think that Michael needs to get past, and to past soon, is because we know that the Michelins struggle with performance early on, but gets stronger as the race progresses. The chance is now or never. And not knowing if JPM's problem is temporary or not, and the question mark over strategy wise, Michael had to do something.

[Speed]

Running too many laps behind a car, it´s bad for your tyres..., I´m with you on this one Gt_R, MS had to do something.

[senna12]

It was mentioned, more than once, by both the ITV and Speedvision commentators (I watch both), that the Michelin tires suffered a performance drop-off for a period of 10 to 12 laps, before they came back in, so it was imperative that MS get past as quickly as he could.
But that doesn't mean that these guys aren't aware of the big picture, so to speak. It's always in the back of your mind. Reputations stick, so you want to make your intentions clear as soon as possible.
This is one thing that JP excelled in right away last year. The other drivers had no doubt that he was going to be very agressive. This is a trait that I hope to see more of from Kimi this year, now that he has the car to do so. If he is as single minded as he appears to be, he should have made this decision as well. He must attempt to bury DC and gain the extra team support that goes with it. Ron has already allowed him to wreck a few Macs in the process.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Speed
Running too many laps behind a car, it´s bad for your tyres..., I´m with you on this one Gt_R, MS had to do something.

both drivers had to do something, they both knew that the michelins would come back sooner rather than later (as they did), if jpm and tgf hadn't gone off at that corner (irrespective of who's fault it was!!....and jpm's car hadn't conked out again ) then they would have finished first and second!! (what way round would proberbly been decieded in the pits!)