Now this will turn up some interesting debate - Page 4

freud · 25 Jun 2002, 23:39 (Ref:321680)

Quote:

Originally posted by Red
Of course you're not a blind fan BB. But the Great Pablo does make mistakes and errors. "Unforced" might be a little bit too exaggerated, since they are usually "forced" by the Evil Empire's and his slave's cars that run along him, and occasinally by the Macs. And of course "many" shall be taken relatively. He doesn't make them on regular basis, but he does more mistakes that Ralf for example.

LOL

Oooh, dont be so dramatic

Red · 26 Jun 2002, 07:14 (Ref:321826)

Sorry.

**Peter Mallett** · 26 Jun 2002, 07:25 (Ref:321829)

For the purpose of politness I'll just list one other unforced error this year. Losing the nosewing on the back of a Ferrari driven by someone who everbody knows will do anythying to win. Or was his car under the control of the Ferrari team?

Also for the sake of fairness JPM's, Canadian GP was bad luck this year. But and I've made this point elsewhere. He wasn't so spectacular as other races and yet was achieving more when his engine let go.

Jukebox · 26 Jun 2002, 07:42 (Ref:321836)

When you are behind someone on a race track, your job is to avoid any collision and anticipate any sudden braking..oh they were about to take a corner so by right the one who is behind should have foresee that.

**Peter Mallett** · 26 Jun 2002, 09:07 (Ref:321882)

Um yes, that's what I meant.

**Adam43** · 26 Jun 2002, 09:25 (Ref:321891)

But when you are some distance from the braking area do you have to keep a respectable distance (maybe 2s?

) behind in case the guy in front suddenly darts across the track?

Knowing that the guy "will do anything" to win doesn't make any difference. If you have to keep well away at all times because of this then this guy has already won.

IMO Brazil doesn't count as an unforced error. It was a move made by another driver than caused it (you can call it naive perhaps on Montoya's part and I'm not saying that it was Michael's fault, but I don't think it's unforced).

**Peter Mallett** · 26 Jun 2002, 09:35 (Ref:321897)

Quote:

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
But when you are some distance from the braking area do you have to keep a respectable distance (maybe 2s? ) behind in case the guy in front suddenly darts across the track?

Knowing that the guy "will do anything" to win doesn't make any difference. If you have to keep well away at all times because of this then this guy has already won.

IMO Brazil doesn't count as an unforced error. It was a move made by another driver than caused it (you can call it naive perhaps on Montoya's part and I'm not saying that it was Michael's fault, but I don't think it's unforced).

That's what debates are about - differing opinions. I just can't personally justify his "Great Juan" tag with a basic error of judgement like that.

Jukebox · 26 Jun 2002, 09:36 (Ref:321898)

2sc? Oooo..that is too far, the guy infront darts or do the choppin manouvre should also be anticipated since he is well known for that. But at least when he darts across, his timing was always perfect unlike the guy behind who never stop to amazes other drivers with his goofy attitute when defending his line

**Adam43** · 26 Jun 2002, 11:20 (Ref:321994)

Quote:

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
That's what debates are about - differing opinions.

Don't be silly. You should all agree with me! *stamps feet*

To be fair a some of this thread has actually been "interesting" too.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jukebox
his timing was always perfect unlike the guy behind who never stop to amazes other drivers with his goofy attitute when defending his line

Waits till the perfect moment so the other driver has to get of the accelerator, brake or steer off the road at 200mph?
Goofily defends his line so that the opponent's line is compromised, but leaves enough time and room that the opponent doesn't have to take action to avoid a crash?

**Peter Mallett** · 26 Jun 2002, 12:09 (Ref:322028)

Quote:

Originally posted by AdamAshmore

...................................To be fair a some of this thread has actually been "interesting" too.

*Sniff*. You are of course entitled to that opinion.

Damon · 26 Jun 2002, 17:55 (Ref:322347)

This is all getting a little silly. For my part I will comment on the Brazil thing though. Look at what Montoya did to Schu on sunday to what schu did to JPM in Brazil. They were near identical situations but JPM pushed Schu hard and fair, giving way when he knew he was beaten (he could have forced schu on to the grass but didn't). In Brazil JPM had a look up the inside and subsequently had his wing taken off by the guy in front. i.e. Hard and unfair.

Tye · 27 Jun 2002, 19:24 (Ref:323007)

BBKing:

"Schumacher made a sillier mistake running behind his slave"

I think I'll take this opportunity to say that this is the type of driving we'd all witness if any teammate of Schumacher's were allowed to "race" him.Schumacher was clearly under pressure to get as close to Barrichello as possible to enable him to leap frog the Brazilian after his pitstop.This was solely a mistake due to pressure and nothing else.Just imagine the different numbers Schumacher would have if his teammate were allowed to "race" him.I would bet you the moon that there would be many more mistakes like the one we saw at the Nurburgring,that is for sure.

As for the accident involving Montoya and Coulthard,I think as others have stated it was purely a racing incident.I think it was a rather optimistic move by Coulthard as he should've tried to pass through the ITT Bogen straight into the Veedol chicane,that is where a real good opportunity to pass exists.We could recall many moves which have ended as this one did,a racing incident.

Tye

Damon · 27 Jun 2002, 21:37 (Ref:323110)

Well put Tye, could do with more people around here who share your way of thinking.

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