Attendance and TV Ratings so Far

[The Snout]

Tim, I disagree with the majority of your opinion above, however I don't have the time to engage you in heathy debate about it right now.

I can quickly touch on Portland however. I don't believe CCWS feels stuck with Portland at all. I believe they signed a 3 year deal with performance options on both sides, and this effort for 3 years was agreed upon in an effort to bring the round back up to health again. Judging by Dick Eidswick's and KK's comments after Portland, I believe that CCWS believes improvements have been made, however more improvement have to be made to ensure a long term future. That was my take on it based on comments by CCWS on race afternoon. I just don't think describing it as pathetic and being stuck with it does the situation there any justice.

[Mosport67]

I'm not guessing at 4K. The numbers were published in the Toronto Star on Monday.

I have been attending Toronto for many years and this was a good crowd. In addition there were more sponsors and events this year. There was far more of a buzz to the place.

My point about the numbers with 60,000 in 1986 and 70,000 in 2005 is that as long as the same method has been used to count that kind of consistent attendance is a good thing.

Electrocuted may well be right about how the numbers are developed. If that is how it has been done for the last 20 years it would be hard to change now.

Cleveland's numbers have always been a question to me based on the number of grandstands. Having said that I wasn't there this year to see.

I do think that Toronto was a strong positive for the series even with a reduce price for tickets. That certainly does not mean that the series is out of the woods yet but it does seem to be moving in the right direction.

If Edmonton turns out as predicted that will be another positive.

I do think for the future that the loss of PT to NASCAR would really hurt attendance in Toronto. PT is a very big draw in Toronto. People actually left our grandstand when he retired from the race.

[Mosport67]

Edmonton race day attendance 78,080. According to the Edmonton Sun they had 43,000 grandstand seats. Is it possible that they had 35,000 general admission and in private suites. They were apparently turning people away at the gates (according to Race Director).

I'm not sure how to make sense of the numbers as to how paddock passes etc were counted. Regardless a great success for ChampCar whatever the real numbers are.

[macdaddy]

Your Sunday attendance number for Edmonton would bring the weekend total to 200,052!

[Tim Northcutt]

That is an outstanding attendance figure!!!

Congrats to all at OWRS and in Edmonton for creating such a successfull weekend of racing at this new venue!!!

[macdaddy]

Somewhere, something didn't add up.
An article on the CC website says that attendance was more like 212,000.

[Amar7605]

From what I am hearing in the media Edmonton was a huge success. If these numbers are accurate, then that proves it.

I didn't see the race :-( but from what I could tell from the highlights it was an exciting, extremely competitive race. Great job, Champ Car!

[extreme]

Well at the track they were anouncing a race day attendance number of 90,000+... so who knows what the real numbers were. There were no turnstiles there to get an accurate count on a number of people that went through the gates... Now that being said, there was a tonne of people there, I was one of them. The grand stands were full and i heard ther the standing room seats were lined up about 8 deep. Excellent race great venue, cant wait till next year. Definately a huge success though.

Ken

[Ac.]

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

I'm glad Toronto had a great crowd...and a 4,000 person drop wouldn't worry me, either....but they also dropped ticket prices 20% according to the Toronto Star....so they had less total revenune by 20% from sales, plus 4,000 less people......

As a CEO, that would cause me concern......

Toronto also negotiated a lower sanctioning fee for their new deal that began this year. I think that their plan was to lower ticket prices by an equivalent amount in an effort to renew interest in the race, yet keep the financials balanced.

I have a hard time believing that there were fewer people at the race this year. As Mosport67 noted, there was a real buzz around the track this year compared to the previous years. Perhaps those numbers were cooked to provide a better picture last year.

[Ac.]

Originally Posted by Snrub

That brings up a good point. Do we have any numbers to suggest how many pit passes are sold? Regardless, what would you guys estimate is an accurate number? mosport67 makes some good points and seems to guess 4k. He strikes me as being capable of making a decent estimate.

The only time I have ever had a pit pass was in 2002 in Toronto when I was invited to spend the day at a corporate hospitality suite. I doubt that many people actually purchase pit passes, most get them as part of a package. The 4K number may even be a bit high.

Same goes for paddock passes. I always order a ticket package that includes a paddock pass. Most weekend ticket packages for the race in Toronto include a paddock pass. As for how people are counted, I don't know, but it was wall to wall people in Toronto both Saturday and Sunday this year.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally Posted by Ac.

Toronto also negotiated a lower sanctioning fee for their new deal that began this year. I think that their plan was to lower ticket prices by an equivalent amount in an effort to renew interest in the race, yet keep the financials balanced.

I have a hard time believing that there were fewer people at the race this year. As Mosport67 noted, there was a real buzz around the track this year compared to the previous years. Perhaps those numbers were cooked to provide a better picture last year.

The numbers I quoted were from a post-race article that, IIRC, was published in the Toronto Star...

[Snrub]

extreme: What was your impression of the race? Any idea as to the impressions of others?

The TV commentators always say some wierd figure, I'd be tempted to go by what was said on the series website/from Edmonton. The bottom line is that Edmonton was a terrific success.

[extreme]

I thought the race was excellent.... I also work with a couple of people that went. One of whom was already a champcar fan and another who was just going to the event... They will both be back for next year and they had a great time. The guy that went for the event and had standing room tickets is even going to buy grand stand tickets... Now to me that sounds impressive...

As far as the track is concerned. I went to the molson indy vancouver in 95 and all we were able to see was the final corner and the first couple of pit boxes... and that was the gold seats. At the edmonton GP in the bronze seats at the bottom you could see turns 9, 10, 11, 12 ,13, 14 althought the cars disapeared for turn 9 and 10 (barriers). but from the top of the same grans stand you could see everything. the only part that you couldnt see was the little bit blocked out by the jumbotron and the cars would disapear behind the turn 9 barrier. So essientally you could see at least 95% of the track. and i think that is pretty good.

And here is the kicker... Even my wife had a good time and she isnt a really big fan. I dont think you could top that kind of praise.

Ken

[indycool]

Strange preliminary TV ratings for the weekend on SPEED:

Atlantics .2
CCWS .1

[Liz]

I'm going next year; I'm just waiting for the schedule to come out.

For one of you who went to the race in Edmonton: did they have a lot of things going on at the track that had nothing to do with racing? Volleyball, motocross, break dancing, basketball, etc.? Particularly far away from the activity on the track?

I'm concerned about this tendency at the Toronto race -- seems to me like a guy wanting to impress a woman but takes her to an Il Divo concert -- not only has he admitted he can't keep her interested in him, but he's given her a quartet of reasons not to even remember he was there at all! I'm wondering why you'd even bother to set up a darkened hall away from the race track with basketball, break dancing, 'battle of the bands' and lingerie shows, as a part of an outdoor car race on a beautiful summer day.

[Snrub]

Wierd stuff Indycool. I would be interested to know, what do other racing series like World Challange typically get on Speed?

Off Topic: No one answered this question for me yet, who were the commentators for the Edmonton Race for those watching on Speed?

[Snrub]

According to the series website TO was a 1.0 on CBS.

[Omega99]

I was at the race, but unfortunately I can't answer your question accurately, Liz. Unfortunately, I was rather cut off from the rest of the world because I was straying in the basement suite that me and a couple of other guys are renting for school, and I didn't have TV, or a radio, or a phone, or a clock, or a car.... It was actually quite a challenging (but very fun) weekend!

I was sitting in the Silvers between Turn 1 and 2 (awesome place to sit by the way) and the General Admission viewing places looked absolutely packed. I doubt most of them even saw anything! I also didn't notice any jumbotrons or loudspeakers near there are which, if you ask me, is kind of a shortsight. I also heard someone ask his buddy "So I wonder when tickets go on sale for next year?"..... and that was BEFORE THE ATLANTIC RACE! This event made a big impression on a lot of people and I hope its bigger and better next year. It certainly has the potential. Drawing 55,000 on Friday (a new record for the series) and 66,000 on Saturday, and the weather started off real lousy. I was so cold I stood in a portapotty to be out of the wind and dry off a bit

I also think it created a big buzz in Calgary as well. Most of the people I worked with said they wanted to go check it out but couldn't make it. Add anotehr race in Calgary and it'll be just about as successful!

Other events could learn a thing or two from the way the Canadian events create a citywide (in fact, practically nationwide) buzz about their races.

[Electrocuted]

I hate it. I really hate how some posters at different sites "pump up" the outstanding weekend with fluffy numbers and high fives. It gets everyone thinking all is well and the series is saved and gets CC fans on a high loop of that ol roller coaster ride.......... and then reality comes out... which is 80,000 different people attended Edmunton, and 150,000 people watched it in the USA. Which causes another low dive on the roller coaster. The fans dont need it. The fans have plenty of high's and low's to endure without avoidable artificial pumping of chests from the "death to earl crowd."

80,000 different people attended.
150,000 (rough) watched in the US.
300,000 (if memory on Canadian races is correct) watched in Canada.

It was a good race weekend, a great race weekend. The numbers are respectable by themselves,, if it wasnt for the few posters that attempted to inflate them into more then they were and now that the numbers are seen for what they are,,, they are not as good as led to believe.

There's plenty of high's and low's ahead. And it will take another few more years before any improvement in the series will be noticed.

[macdaddy]

Some people try to make the most of the lows.
Other people just try to make the highs low.

[Mosport67]

It was a good race weekend, a great race weekend. The numbers are respectable by themselves,, if it wasnt for the few posters that attempted to inflate them into more then they were and now that the numbers are seen for what they are,,, they are not as good as led to believe.

I'm not really sure what you are saying here. Edmonton was a huge success what ever spin you put on the numbers. 43,000 grandstand seats and full general admission areas. Great for a first year race. 80,000 (even if the real number is 40,000) new fans sounds good to me.

Add to that the buzz in Edmonton and the strong support from the city it is great positive for ChampCar. A great building block with both fans and sponsors.

TV numbers are still not good but that is a long term project.

ChampCar is not saved yet but this is a great step. They have to continue to build on their success. The long term plan looks better this week. Hopefully it is even better after San Jose.

Open wheel racing in the US has its struggles and these will be long term problems to be addressed by both series.

I would say this season has been an improvement over last year. Certainly Toronto was an improvement in the buzz and with sponsors. That was the only race I have been to live this year.

Strong moves in the right direction by ChampCar (another might be we have heard next to nothing from Genilozzi). I like the plan (although still hanker for a superspeedway (Michigan??) and a real road course (Road America) even though the traditional events are not all there.

The glass is half full in my view.

[macdaddy]

A recent run of four consecutive races shown live on CBS showed steady growth in Nielsen ratings numbers, topping out at the Molson Indy Toronto with a final rating of 1.0, signifying that over one million households tuned in...

The hometown broadcaster of the Molson Indy Toronto also showed a large increase in viewership as RDS reported that it more than doubled its household numbers for the 2005 Champ Car event. In addition, international presence has increased over 2004, especially in France, Denmark and Sweden...

the four CBS races showed a quantum leap in sponsor, team and manufacturer exposure times. Exposure time... increased by more than a full hour in each of the events shown on CBS.

Will Wilson:
"These increases in time that our partners are visible to the television audience not only provides added value to our existing partners, it helps attract new sponsors and partners and spurs even further growth."

Article.

[Electrocuted]

Originally Posted by Mosport67

(another might be we have heard next to nothing from Genilozzi).

THAT we agree on 100%.....

It was early for me when I posted the above.... I shouldnt do that.
The bottom line was it was a great event. A great foundation to build upon. A good step for CC's growth, that will take a few years to do.
What I dont like is the chest thumping attitudes from a few posters on different boards. The way they fluffed and pumped it gave the false impression that this past weekend saved CC. They made it seem like it was outa the world huge,, fans that didnt look to hard into it believed them. Now they see the 80,000 different people and 100,000 tv viewers and they get sunk to another avoidable low. I really do feel sorry for those fans that get caught up in the false hype. I hope they understand my posts, it's not D&G or half empty but one small good weekend of many needed to get healthy again.

[Snrub]

I have a pretty high opinion of the people on this forum, I think everyone is smart enough to grasp the level of success in Edmonton. 80k on race day is a big race, period. 200k indeed does sound more impressive, but it's not useless, it helps to grasp the ferocity of the fans. 55k sat out in the rain (or as a tactic one of our members employed, periodically waiting in an out-house. Apparently there weren't enough of those, so imagine the state of it and the fact that it was somehow better than outside!) for Friday practice.

I do not get the TV numbers. 1M watch on CBS, but then a week later 150k watch on Speed? I understand that Speed should be lower, but THAT much lower? What is the problem? If anyone has any explaination or inclination of an explaintion, I'd love to hear it.

Edmonton doesn't save Champ Car any more than Danica saves the IRL. Both are positive developments, but don't radically change the big picture.

[Amar7605]

When it comes to TV ratings, yeah I would like to see them higher, but considering that the networks have huge budgets in other sports, it is no wonder that CC doesn't get promoted enough.

Here in America, CBS has billions of dollars tied up with NFL, the NCAA Final Four, and the major golf tournaments. ABC has the NBA and college football. NBC has NASCAR and NFL after next year, plus the Olympics. And FOX has NASCAR and baseball.

When you look at that, its billions and billions of TV dollars spent on these sporting events. I think that if the networks put more advertising dollars in Champ Car (like they used to in the 80s and early 90s), then you would see a rise in ratings. It's all about making the viewer audience aware that races are on!