[Team] Red Bull: Unbullievable

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Skam85

The way I remember it was his defending cost Lewis the window to box under the last SC for fresh tyres and come back out in the lead

It's a bit of a stretch to give Perez credit for that one. The gap before the SC was down to 11 seconds and dropping. Perez cost Lewis a total of another 11. It's highly unlikely that Lewis would've had the gap to pit comfortably regardless of what Perez did.

We sit and say everyone in here is a George apologist (although not sure where that came from other than yourself? It's certainly not my opinion on things), but Perez had significantly less impact on that race than Mercedes pit wall, Latifi and Masi. It feels very much like we're looking for excuses on why Perez should be in a championship leading car whilst he's currently 1 point ahead of Sainz - who is in a worse car, has won more races, and missed an entire race.

[morninggents]

It could be said that Perez missed an entire race.

[Akrapovic]

It could be said that, for sure. But qualifying 16th and being involved in a midfield accident isn't the same as having surgery.

[peebee2]

It's pretty simple.

If Max stays, Perez is clearly the best choice.

If Max leaves, Perez is clearly the best choice.

Hence Red Bull have given Checo the new two-year contract...

[flatlandsman]

Nothing to do with the no doubt millions Daddy is pouring in of course, what a pathetic decision.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

Nothing to do with the no doubt millions Daddy is pouring in of course, what a pathetic decision.

His Dad pays nothing at all. He does generally bring good sponsorship though, which is commercially beneficial all round as he gets massive exposure back home.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

Nothing to do with the no doubt millions Daddy is pouring in of course, what a pathetic decision.

F1 hasn't been the same ever since Lance Perez Sr. bought Ferrari just so his daughter could get a seat.

Richard

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

Nothing to do with the no doubt millions Daddy is pouring in of course, what a pathetic decision.

His money is from Telmex. I don't believe that's owned by his father.

Alonso brings considerable money too. Do what you want with that information.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

His money is from Telmex. I don't believe that's owned by his father.

Agree. Perez's family is wealthy, but I believe it is Carlos Slim/Telemex that brings the sponsorship money. Slim is massively wealthy. In the top 10-15 in the world.

Richard

[GTRMagic]

It might be nice if Mr Horner used Mr Perez’s given name in the release though..

[chillibowl]

while conservative, i definitely think this is a more than reasonable choice...i am a bit surprised by what sounds like a guaranteed two year extension tho.

one year with a team option for an additional year because his age, the new rules, the possibility or need promotion from their b team, and, i could be wrong here but, also because a number of driver deals come up for renewal for 2026...seems more sensible that the team would want some more flexibility for 2026?

guess no promotion for Ric/basically the end of his F1 career as well?

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

while conservative, i definitely think this is a more than reasonable choice...i am a bit surprised by what sounds like a guaranteed two year extension tho.

one year with a team option for an additional year because his age, the new rules, the possibility or need promotion from their b team, and, i could be wrong here but, also because a number of driver deals come up for renewal for 2026...seems more sensible that the team would want some more flexibility for 2026?

guess no promotion for Ric/basically the end of his F1 career as well?

Ric will be lucky if he gets retained next year. Lawson has got to fit in somewhere and what happebs if Hadjar wins F2?

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by PanozDP01

True. Red Bull gets a pass for the first Perez contract. He helped Max secure the title. He also crashed on the staging lap at Spa that year.
https://youtu.be/fV92R74FiAE?si=hOCixVRN6L6j6jMX

But I don't see how Red Bull should get a pass for the second Perez contract. And for sure not the third. Perez doesn't even make a natural #2 driver. Like Bottas did. Checo's priorities are himself first, his country second and Red Bull a distant third. He crashed in qualifying on purpose for god sake. That is a very underhanded move for a #2 driver. He gets on the radio and says "we need to talk" because strategy favored Max. Who happens to be the best in the world at the moment. The audacity of the guy.

Red Bull had to know this and they deserve to be ridiculed for it when Checo does Checo things.

The whole Checo issue is there because journalists and fan sites get clicks and mileage out of creating issues around drivers.
It happened to others in the Red Bull camp in years gone by because of their lack of history in GP (not a 'garagiste', nor an OEM).
And then people have trolled Stroll and Ricciardo in the last few years.
The whole 'rubbish the driver' or 'rubbish the team' thing is quite toxic on internet sites over the last few years and its not getting better.

When a championship winning team created a crash for its second driver (son of a multiple WDC winner) to lift his team leader's points score there wasn't the same toxic atmosphere around that driver for months in the same way that the present names mentioned above have had to endure over the last two or three years.

But all of that may simply be a reflection on the way society has shifted over the last five or six years.

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Ric will be lucky if he gets retained next year. Lawson has got to fit in somewhere and what happebs if Hadjar wins F2?

I think Danny keeps his seat and Yuki could be more likely to leave.
or it stays the same.

Stranger things have happened.

LOVE to see Doohan in a seat "somewhere"

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by Sandgroper

I think Danny keeps his seat and Yuki could be more likely to leave.
or it stays the same.

Stranger things have happened.

LOVE to see Doohan in a seat "somewhere"

This is Australian passport talking not realism.
Same as someone said to me just before the Hamilton move was announced that Ricciardo held the key to the 2025 driver market.My reply was that the only driver market Ricciardo would be affecting was who was going to drive the taxi in the Heineken beer commercial.
Doohan did better in F2 than he had previously but nothing that screamed out Future F1 Star.He’s not remotely near Piastri.Given the decisions Alpine have made in the last few years anyone has a chance at that drive.

[Plantagenet]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

The whole Checo issue is there because journalists and fan sites get clicks and mileage out of creating issues around drivers.
It happened to others in the Red Bull camp in years gone by because of their lack of history in GP (not a 'garagiste', nor an OEM).
And then people have trolled Stroll and Ricciardo in the last few years.
The whole 'rubbish the driver' or 'rubbish the team' thing is quite toxic on internet sites over the last few years and its not getting better.

When a championship winning team created a crash for its second driver (son of a multiple WDC winner) to lift his team leader's points score there wasn't the same toxic atmosphere around that driver for months in the same way that the present names mentioned above have had to endure over the last two or three years.

But all of that may simply be a reflection on the way society has shifted over the last five or six years.

Teretonga - I care to disagree. Most drivers who are consistently slower than their team-mates would have their position questioned. I don't think the tone in the discussions here have been particularly nasty - this is a F1 Forum and we are simply discussing why a driver in the best car is not performing at the same level as his teammate.

For me, I re-iterate my earlier point. I think that RB need a stronger second driver in 2025 given the competitor driver line-ups and the likely closing of the speed advantage RB have (and perhaps we are seeing that already) and I think they will end up regretting keeping Perez.

[chillibowl]

2024 almost half done so I would imagine work is already shifting to 2025 and with the reg changes for 2026 surely some resources are already being placed there…that’s a lot of work over the next year and a half so continuity and experience may turn out to be the more important priority?

Of course that’s just speculation and time will tell, but all things being equal stability and rewarding loyalty does seems like the smarter bet for this team at this time imo. Moreso when there isn’t a clear top level driver nor better journeyman to put in that 2nd seat.

For sure I’m excluding Sainz because neither seem interested in revisiting that relationship…but that is also an assumption on my part.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

2024 almost half done so I would imagine work is already shifting to 2025 and with the reg changes for 2026 surely some resources are already being placed there…that’s a lot of work over the next year and a half so continuity and experience may turn out to be the more important priority?

Of course that’s just speculation and time will tell, but all things being equal stability and rewarding loyalty does seems like the smarter bet for this team at this time imo. Moreso when there isn’t a clear top level driver nor better journeyman to put in that 2nd seat.

For sure I’m excluding Sainz because neither seem interested in revisiting that relationship…but that is also an assumption on my part.

I’m sure Sainz would love to sign for Red Bull, but I don’t think he was that serious an option.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

2024 almost half done so I would imagine work is already shifting to 2025 and with the reg changes for 2026 surely some resources are already being placed there…that’s a lot of work over the next year and a half so continuity and experience may turn out to be the more important priority?

For sure. While this is the Red Bull thread, I think I read somewhere that Williams is focusing on 2025 and beyond. As to design work for 2026. There was a ban put in place to prevent teams from doing 2026 aero development work (some things allowed like brake duct development), but that any aero work should be done using models (CFD, and tunnel models) that fit with the current regulations and not the future ones. That 2026 aero work can't start until 2025. I think this rule was put in place to primarily target Red Bull (without naming them) who with a dominate car could use 2024 and 2025 to focus on 2026. This ban was put in place when Red Bull seemed unstoppable. I expect now that the gap seems to have narrowed that Red Bull will need to continue to do development on the 2024/2025 tech spec.

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/h...ars-will-work/

But back to Williams, I think I heard Vowles in a Williams YT video calling out that they are working on concepts that will work on the current spec as well as 2026.

I can imagine teams finding ways to work around the 2026 aero design ban by working 2026 concepts, but applying them to current technical regulations. Not ideal, but it could allow them to do some level of work toward 2026.

Richard

[PanozDP01]

Originally Posted by peebee2

It's pretty simple.

If Max stays, Perez is clearly the best choice.

If Max leaves, Perez is clearly the best choice.

Hence Red Bull have given Checo the new two-year contract...

This is a joke right ?

Sainz would be a perfect backup plan for if Max left.

Hulk and Bottas would make good 2nd drivers depending on what they are aiming for. Perez can barely keep the car on the track. Thats the problem

Red Bull tried to get Norris which undoes the arguments that Max wanted a slow #2

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by PanozDP01

This is a joke right ?

Sainz would be a perfect backup plan for if Max left.

Hulk and Bottas would make good 2nd drivers depending on what they are aiming for. Perez can barely keep the car on the track. Thats the problem

Red Bull tried to get Norris which undoes the arguments that Max wanted a slow #2

No joke, I just don't think you are thinking of it from a team point of view. Sainz would absolutely not be a perfect back up plan.

I think Max would smash anyone in the second car. Part of why Perez looks comparatively poor sometimes.

[PanozDP01]

Originally Posted by peebee2

No joke, I just don't think you are thinking of it from a team point of view. Sainz would absolutely not be a perfect back up plan.

I think Max would smash anyone in the second car. Part of why Perez looks comparatively poor sometimes.

If Max left Red Bull after 2025, how would Sainz not be a satisfactory stopgap #1 driver ?

Plus the fact that Red Bull made it known that they wanted Lando Norris. Which undoes all the arguments that they wanted to insulate Max

[PanozDP01]

Cameron F1 on Perez

It sounds like Austria wanted Sainz. And Horner wanted Perez

https://www.youtube.com/live/nuZkbmu...L2pgakgRn9LN7t

[chunterer]

The Sainz'and Verstappens bickering led to Sainz jnr's departure from STR in the first place.
The Sainz family allegedly did not grasp the fact thst Max was the 2nd comimg, or that Red Bull saw it that way.

Based on the above it would take a change of ownership and/or team management to see Sainz Jnr in one of the cars.

[Teretonga]

It

Originally Posted by Plantagenet

Teretonga - I care to disagree. Most drivers who are consistently slower than their team-mates would have their position questioned. I don't think the tone in the discussions here have been particularly nasty - this is a F1 Forum and we are simply discussing why a driver in the best car is not performing at the same level as his teammate.

For me, I re-iterate my earlier point. I think that RB need a stronger second driver in 2025 given the competitor driver line-ups and the likely closing of the speed advantage RB have (and perhaps we are seeing that already) and I think they will end up regretting keeping Perez.

It wasn't so much the nature of this forum i was referring to, but the overall nature of what was appearing across multiple sites and the comments made by many of their followers. All of this is continually stoked up by the sites themselves.

It's one thing to make an opinion about a driver and share it but the repeating grinding out a driver as has happened over the last two or three years is an increasingly ugly aspect of fandom expression