[Team] Mercedes: Will they ever dominate again?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Was he though? Are you sure that Alonso's car was weighed? Many of the technical checks are done on a spot checking, randomised method (as we saw in Austin last year with random plank thickness checks). Would need to see the technical delegate's report to be sure that Alonso's car was actually weighed.

Right. Regulations say something like "classified cars may be weighed" not "will".

Richard

[Adam43]

Weighing is a pretty easy check (page 2) so pretty much always everyone.
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi...utineering.pdf

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Weighing is a pretty easy check (page 2) so pretty much always everyone.
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi...utineering.pdf

Thanks Adam

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Was he though? Are you sure that Alonso's car was weighed? Many of the technical checks are done on a spot checking, randomised method (as we saw in Austin last year with random plank thickness checks). Would need to see the technical delegate's report to be sure that Alonso's car was actually weighed.

It was

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Thanks Adam

No problem.
It’s interesting the bits that are normal to check and those that aren’t. And there ar ethos things that don’t have a standard check as such.
Very much a pragmatic approach to doing it.

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Heavily worn tyres are clearly going to weigh less then tyres that have done half the number of laps, that's for sure and also (logically) whey he ended up underweight.

There is no chance to pick up marbles, gravel etc. at Spa because there is no cool down lap - they cross the line, got around La Source and come up pit lane in reverse direction. The pickup can be worth a couple of kg so at any other circuit, he would have won, picked up marbles and been over the minimum weight.

So one stop strategies may work at some other circuits - the weight issue is specific to Spa.

Every team knows that they couldn’t do a cool down lap for years. They cheated, got caught and deserved to be stripped of the race win.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by FAS33

Every team knows that they couldn’t do a cool down lap for years. They cheated, got caught and deserved to be stripped of the race win.

Of course they all know about the lack of cool down lap. That's why Spa is where going the one stop route had a higher risk of being underweight compared to other F1 circuits - which is what the post you quote was about.

As for "they cheated" - not convinced on that at all but we can certainly say that they miscalculated and it cost them a 1-2.

[midgetman]

I think it's termed as "F-ed up big time."

I've had a couple of DSQ due to underweight, we weren't trying to cheat we just F-ed up big time. It's just that F1 is bigger time than club karting.

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

[S griffin]

Exactly, teams don't try to deliberately go underweight, not in this day and age. Too much risk of getting caught. Just basically Merc miscalculated and said it was a combination of things

[morninggents]

I agree. Unfortunately internet trolls don't understand that.

[Plantagenet]

I've done it twice (I know, I know, Oscar Wilde and all that) - f'ed both times.

FWIW, I can't believe it gave Russell any real advantage. Given the current cars are so bleed'n heavy (~800kg), I make this 1kg infringement to be barely above 0.1% of the car weight.

[peebee2]

They didn't cheat. They tried to be smart by discounting the one stop and ballasting the car for multiple stops. When deg was much less than they expected, they should have stuck with the two-stopper as it should have been obvious the car would be underweight.

It's a mistake, not cheating. A big and fundamental mistake that shouldn't have happened, but still not cheating.

[Aysedasi]

And the lack of pickup from a full slow down lap has nothing to do with it?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

And the lack of pickup from a full slow down lap has nothing to do with it?

Possibly/probably a contributing factor.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

And the lack of pickup from a full slow down lap has nothing to do with it?

Because it is a known factor at Spa the teams would use that in their pre race ballast calculations. Mercedes simply didnt ballast the car allowing for a one stopper because pre race it was not an option.
Mid race when it became apparent there was an option to one stop, and they changed strategies, no one put their hand up and said oh wait, we were a bit aggressive with our ballast calculations pre race and didnt allow for the extra 1.5 kgs loss of weight for a set of tyres doing 34 laps over the 18 laps use and less wear had they done a two stopper.
(The tyres alone (without wheels) weigh 42kgs a set... 11.5kg per rear 9.5kg per front)

Oversight, Negligence, call it what you will.

[Rusty Nail]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

And the lack of pickup from a full slow down lap has nothing to do with it?

That was undoubtedly factored into the two stopper. What wasn't factored into their calculations, was the possibility of a one stopper. I think that was the cock up.

EB beat me to it!

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

And the lack of pickup from a full slow down lap has nothing to do with it?

I doubt it. If you didn't know that I'm not sure you could find your way into the circuit each morning.

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by peebee2

I doubt it. If you didn't know that I'm not sure you could find your way into the circuit each morning.

Reminds me of when I went to Spa in 2022, took the wrong turn exiting the circuit at the top of La Source, except my camp site was way past Les Combes.

You really appreciate how big Spa is when you have to double back and walk back through the track after a long day of... walking the track. Pretty sure I got close to 40,000 steps.

Can confirm I didn't pick up 1.5kg of tyre rubber though

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by peebee2

I doubt it. If you didn't know that I'm not sure you could find your way into the circuit each morning.

Oh I'd manage fine. The one thing I surely wouldn't need is your assistance at any point.

[bathurst77]

To say cheated is hysterical and exaggerating, it little like Colin Chapman saying a F1 car should fall apart at the end of each race (ie dont put anything on it that lasts more than race distance) they want the car to pass scrute weights etc after the race, but not by much!
THis time they fell slightly over the line, and so were declared out. A bit like track limits, over is over. Its not cheating, but thats the rules, fair cop.

F1 teams will always sail as close to the rules allow, find loopholes and wriggle room and clever ways to do things that arent specifically forbidden in the rules. THats what gives us innovations and new creative designs.

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

To say cheated is hysterical and exaggerating, it little like Colin Chapman saying a F1 car should fall apart at the end of each race (ie dont put anything on it that lasts more than race distance) they want the car to pass scrute weights etc after the race, but not by much!
THis time they fell slightly over the line, and so were declared out. A bit like track limits, over is over. Its not cheating, but thats the rules, fair cop.

F1 teams will always sail as close to the rules allow, find loopholes and wriggle room and clever ways to do things that arent specifically forbidden in the rules. THats what gives us innovations and new creative designs.

[Mark Galea]

After Lewis going to Ferrari idk

[Greem]

Never thought I'd ever use this sentence:

Kimi to Mercedes!

Well done young Mr Antonelli. That's a big seat to fill.