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2 Sep 2010, 14:35 (Ref:2753649)
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#1101 | |
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Veteran
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Great stuff- that's filled in a lot of history for the two Australian cars
That middle pair of pics showing the car in the ex-Sawyer-Hoare red colourscheme are very interesting. We've seen pics of Slako's early races with the car in the 1985 ATCC already, but these must be some of the earliest, as it's still got some of the signwriting for CS-H's sponsors on it... Compare them with this pic of the car at Brands the previous year- http://www.flickr.com/photos/3611177...7622382683987/ In the Australian pics it's still got the Esso and Daily Mirror decals on the front, and the 'Sign Language' logos on the side is still there in the top pic- the one showing 'West Racing' (Slako's company) on the doors. As far as I can see, theres no sign in those two pics of the 'Alf Barbagallo Rover' sponsorship that's usually seen on pics of the car in Australia either: http://tentenths.com/forum/attachmen...3&d=1282738384 Last edited by KA; 2 Sep 2010 at 14:41. |
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3 Sep 2010, 18:01 (Ref:2754161)
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#1103 | ||
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Good find, KA.
Going back to the Sawyer-Hoare/Slako Rover for some later updates on that particular chassis story. Who drove this car during the Patrick Motorsport days? There were at least two cars for part of the 1982 season, with Rad Dougall being joined by Brian Muir during the summer. Then there was the TT car which might have been one of these two cars converted or a third. From my point of thinking the TT car, already in group A specification, would be a likely candidate for the Sawyer-Hoare 1983 and '84 car, but missing confirmation. Did it have a 1981 story too? I think Patrick MS had a singleton entry during that year as well and I do have must results from that year too, so.. I know that some of these questions has been dealt with and even cleared, but I have lost track when and how, but would appreciate a clear overview of what results to consider for this chassis. Thanks to grouparover it should be relatively easy to find the latterday results during the Geoff Herbert-era. Jesper |
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3 Sep 2010, 19:59 (Ref:2754213)
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#1104 | ||
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Quote:
http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....&postcount=187 http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....postcount=1010 http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....postcount=1004 Had a look back through the thread, and found a post from Martin Thomas saying that the Muir car went to Sawyer-Hoare, and the Greenslade to Dennis Leech. The 'spare' (also used at the TT) was retained by the Patrick Group for their collection http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....&postcount=638 |
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3 Sep 2010, 20:23 (Ref:2754225)
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#1105 | |||
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Quote:
From Post 638: Ex Patrick motorsport cars Rover's Brian muirs car went to Andy Rouse for C Sawyer Hoare, Rex Greenslades car went to Dennis Leech . Mark hales bought from us ex works Group 2 car . Spare Patrick motorsport car in collection at museum . This was also used by Rad Dougall at TT. New car for Gordon Spice which we ran then sold to Linden Racing and raced by Niel McGrath. Later to Letchworth roofing and I understand it was destroyed Rad Dougall was not a part of the 1982 TT lineup, as Brian Muir had newly crowned BSCC champion Win Percy alongside - Mayby Martin Thomas knew the usual BSCC Dougall car as the one that was converted to Group A for the 1982 TT, driven by Muir/Percy, and therefore referred to it as the Dougall-car? Looking at Frank de Jongs page for any Dougall-Patrick connection of the 1981-event didn't help either: http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...lverstone.html Jesper Last edited by Jesper OH; 3 Sep 2010 at 20:30. |
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4 Sep 2010, 10:19 (Ref:2754390)
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#1106 | ||
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Veteran
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Quote:
Rad Dougall did make at least one appearance for the team in 1981- according to a Rover advert (think there might be a pic of this back in the thread somewhere) he finished 3rd behind the Daily Express/Esso cars of Allam and Lovett at the final round, Silverstone 4th Oct 1981. I don't know whether this was in a third car, or standing in for Rex Greenslade (I've also got a copy of pic from Autosport headlined 'Farewell to Ford?' showing the four Rovers of Lovett, Dougall Allam and Muir running 1-2-3-4 in the race, and as the caption puts in 'Not a Capri in sight') or whether he did any more rounds that year. The pic isn't very clear, but Dougall's car doesn't appear to have Greenslade's regular #8, it looks like a two-digit race number, possibly 16 or 18? If he'd been in a third car here, that might explain Martin Thomas referring to the spare as the 'Dougall' car. The 'Greenslade' car must have already been sold by the team in 1982, as Martin said it went to Dennis Leech- Dennis ran the '82 BTCC in the Rover, replacing his Capri. Presumably the 1982 Patrick team must have used the 'Muir' car and the 'spare'- as you suggest, could this account for Martin mentioning Rad Dougall's name in connection with the spare car?- ie it becoming Dougall's 1982 BTCC mount (and then the Muir/Percy TT car) The pics of the 'spare' car I've seen in recent years show it wearing #6 (Muir's 1982 BTCC race number) but without any sign of the drivers name visible on the car (in period pics, the driver's name seems to have been carried just above the door handle) http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveoflogic/3385164350/ The 'ex-works Group 2' car Martin mentions as being sold to Mark Hales is presumably the 'Dave Price/Unipart' car from the 1980 TT? (Patrick Motorsport did have a Rover at the 1980 TT, for Muir & Dave Brodie- #53,finishing 10th: http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...lverstone.html presumably Muir's regular BTCC car?) IIRC did Mark Hales run the ex-Unipart car in Modsaloons? |
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4 Sep 2010, 11:08 (Ref:2754406)
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#1107 | |
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Veteran
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To recap, if I understand it correctly, based on the last few posts, and checking some results on Frank de Jong's site, does the Patrick Motorsport/Martin Thomas Rover story run roughly like this?:
1980-
Last edited by KA; 4 Sep 2010 at 11:18. |
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4 Sep 2010, 12:15 (Ref:2754422)
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#1108 | |
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Rookie
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 22
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According to David Hardcastle's book on the Rover V8 engine which has quite a bit of history of the race cars, Dennis Leech's second car was built using a brand new TWR/AR motorsport shell. I don't believe Dennis bought the shunted 017 but a large number of parts on his second car came from that TWR car.
How much work went into updating the various old group 1 cars to group A, was it just a Vitesse engine or did they receive the full group A suspension as well? |
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4 Sep 2010, 15:10 (Ref:2754467)
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#1109 | ||
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Join Date: Oct 2003
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Excellent summary of the Thomas cars through the 80's from KA!
Dave, you've raised an interesting question about what changes some cars went through from Group 1 to Group A spec. It's thought that in the early part of 1983 at least, some cars were still running G1 suspension but with Group A spec engines, including the Sanyo TWR cars. I've got a feeling that someone wrote in a report that the only full pukka Group A TWR car at the start of '83 was Soper's? Ken Clarke refuted that, saying all 3 cars were brand new, built to full Group A spec. The ex Thomas cars however may well have been 'mongrels' - running uprated engines and brakes but with older spec suspension - with the exception of the green Spice car? |
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4 Sep 2010, 21:45 (Ref:2754575)
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Quote:
* indicating that only one driver was involved in this particular race. Please do consider the ? marks through the results. Confirmation of facts like these would be nice, as do confirmation of weather Geoff (Geoffrey, as it apparently is) Herbert or Peter Harper raced this car through its latter day history. Do anybody have a picture of what seems to have been a well raced #40 Rover Vitesse? Jesper Jesper |
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6 Sep 2010, 13:30 (Ref:2755166)
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#1111 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 10
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Please find the attached photo of car #40 as i purchased it plus some others of it competiting here in Australia.Tim Slacko was allocated # 96 for the duration of the Australian Touring car championship,with the exception of # 19 for the Australian Grand Prix support races and # 11 for Bathurst.
Jesper can you add into your list the car also ran in the 1986 AGP support race on 1986-10-23.The three races in New Zealand were called the Benson and Hedges touring car series, unfortunately thats all i know about it so far. The car has had Group A updates here and there but there is still quite a number of Group 1 parts belonging to it ( a true mungrel indeed ) Many thanks everyone for their input. |
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6 Sep 2010, 17:27 (Ref:2755274)
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Update of races. I'm still a little hesitant to post any 1981-1982 results, as that part of the story isn't clear to me, but will give KAs resume another look a little later.
*As previously, likely only one driver raced. Thank you providing a few more pictures of your car, grouparover, especially in the #40 guise. I guess the front bumper would have been white just like the rear one. The #96 of Slako seems to have been related to a FM-radio station called 96 FM, but then one of your pictures show it as plain 96, without the radio add. Tim Slako seems to have given up on the car during 1987, as he's only listed for two Wanneroo races. Quite understandable, with the new generation of cars coming along that year. Jesper Last edited by Jesper OH; 6 Sep 2010 at 17:41. |
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6 Sep 2010, 19:15 (Ref:2755351)
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#1113 | ||
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Quote:
Slightly off-topic, but that middle pic, with the Rover chasing the white BMW is very interesting, as it contains a whole assortment of Australian touring car rarities. My knowledge of Australian circuits isn't up to identifying them from pics, but comparing the pic to the ATCC season review in the '85 Bathurst annual, I reckon it could be the final round at Oran Park on July 14th? http://tentenths.com/forum/attachmen...5&d=1283776301 If so, from front to rear I think we've got:
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6 Sep 2010, 20:38 (Ref:2755398)
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#1114 | ||
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Veteran
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At some point I'd like to start threads on the Australian group A scene, perhaps including the New Zealand scene too? - just like the series of threads covering the BSCC/BTCC. I know that the English language version of Wikipedia has done a lot of ground work, but most of the finer details are missing, as well as the usual very constructive discussions this forum has produced in the past.
Most results for the Australian GP support races are unknown to me, but seems to have produced some surprises and I believe the The Toy Shop GTV just mentioned, was at one stage even raced by Allan Grice! Any interest in such a project? Jesper |
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6 Sep 2010, 20:52 (Ref:2755401)
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#1115 | |||
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Race Official Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Quote:
Paul, out of interest, when stripping the paint back recently did you ever find any dark blue of yellow paint beneath the red/red white at all? Also interesting to note in grouparover's pics that the latter shots of it in no.40 guise show 'Sign Language' logos on the rear! I would assume that particular relationship ended when the car parted company with CS-H several years beforehand so could the logo's on the car latterly have been an effort to refer to the historical livery I wonder? |
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__________________
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6 Sep 2010, 21:23 (Ref:2755412)
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#1116 | |||
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Quote:
(Note the B&H decals on the doors of a number of cars including the Anderson Bros. 'Pinepac' Mustang in these pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/8021817@N07/2782888719/ ) Quote:
IIRC Slako was a Perth-based driver, and there still seems seems to be a 96FM broadcasting in Perth ( http://www.96fm.com.au/ ), presumably the same one that appeared on the Rover As you suggest, Slako seems to have given up on the Rover in '87- I can't find any mention of him competing in the ATCC or Bathurst in '88, but he returned with a pair of pink Barbagallo-sponsored Commodores in 1989 http://www.autopics.com.au/cache/ite....html?cache=no |
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6 Sep 2010, 21:45 (Ref:2755418)
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#1117 | ||
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Quote:
Looking at pics of the car, the colour changes seem to have been pretty comprehensive- in the CS-H colours it appears to be red inside, with a black rollcage. The red interior and black cage seem to survive into the white '85 Bathurst paintjob, but looking at the 1986 pics, the car is pink inside and out, including the rollcage. Would be interesting to know whether any traces of the original Patrick colours survived under the succession of resprays though... Changing the subject slightly, browsing around Autopics, I found a couple of pics of the red John Donnelly car http://www.autopics.com.au/cache/ite....html?cache=no http://www.autopics.com.au/cache/ite....html?cache=no |
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6 Sep 2010, 21:51 (Ref:2755420)
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#1118 | ||
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6 Sep 2010, 21:56 (Ref:2755423)
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This is as far as I can get with the early Patrick MotorSport races, as I only have BSCC results and race reports from 1982 and beyond, but at least it's a start..
Jesper Last edited by Jesper OH; 6 Sep 2010 at 22:18. Reason: A few exstra dates, but no new results |
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7 Sep 2010, 01:24 (Ref:2755464)
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#1120 | |||||
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Veteran
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Quote:
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__________________
"Our traction control was kinda how much your last crash was still hurting you." - Kevin Schwantz
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7 Sep 2010, 08:29 (Ref:2755525)
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#1121 | ||
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Race Official Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 15,907
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Great guys please kick off, I assume you'll be starting these historical season by season threads in our section?
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__________________
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7 Sep 2010, 13:37 (Ref:2755694)
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#1122 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Dec 2006
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When i stripped the car there was no evidence of any other paint at all,i assumed Tim stripped all the previous coats of paint off before he painted it pink.
The car must have put onto a rotisserie as every part of the car was pink( underneath, inside, engine compartment ) The first 3 races the signage on the car varied , the sequence is : Waneroo 1985-3-31 West racing on doors, still has daily Mirror and esso signage #96 Adelaide international raceway 1985-4-20 prestige car sales on doors, esso still on bonnet #19 Amaroo park 1985-7-6 Alf Barbagallo on doors,no more C S-H signage Bathurst 1985-10-5 Colour change to white Alf Barbagallo and 96 FM Bathurst 1986-10-2 Colour change to pink Alf Barbagallo ans 96 FM Waneroo 1988-1-29 Colour change to red Airtech signage |
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7 Sep 2010, 17:37 (Ref:2755814)
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#1123 | |||
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Veteran
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From the pictures I've seen of his and/or Alf Barbagellos later Holden Commodores they looked quite "complete" in their finish, so not surprised that there's no trace of any paint prior to the pink.
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8 Sep 2010, 21:16 (Ref:2756423)
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#1124 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,405
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Quote:
Industrial Control Services Ltd offer for sale their highly successful Production Saloon Rover Vitesse. 3rd in class, Uniroyal Production Saloon Championship. Convincing saloon class winner and 2nd overall in the Willhire 24 Hour race (beating 3 Porsches). The only other prodsaloon consistently on terms with the Starions. Sure winner in '85 with the right driver. Open to offers The contact name given in the advert isn't Andy Rouse or Pete Hall as you'd expect, but Phil Dowsett. Dowsett's normal drive that year was a Terry Drury Alfa (one of which I think was the ex-Hall/.Rouse/ICS 1983 car?), though he did share Hall's Group A ICS Rover at the TT later that year. IIRC, when the Group A Rover was advertised at the end of the '86 season, the ad for that car also gave Dowsett as the contact. |
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8 Sep 2010, 21:29 (Ref:2756429)
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#1125 | |||
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Race Official Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Quote:
I've got a feeling Dowsett worked for ICS at one point, maybe that's why he was the contact for the sales? As you say he certainly had close links with Pete Hall but Rouse as well come to that from various prodsaloon and prodsports entries in the 80's. |
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