LM24 Race The 76th edition of the 24hrs of Le Mans - RACE THREAD - Page 45

JAG · 13 Jun 2008, 15:51 (Ref:2227887)

Quote:

Originally Posted by henk4

as far as I know the race has yet to start....

Last year.......

It doesn't matter whether it's boost or whatever, the teams can run them in differeing specifications for differing situations.

NightStalk3r · 13 Jun 2008, 15:53 (Ref:2227889)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Is it being implied that they are not running at full boost as allowed in appendix 1, sect A.4 (table)? Or what?

L.P.

It's being implied that the they run less boost in the race than they do in qualifying to reduce stress on the engine and thus reducing the chance of engine or turbo failure.

henk4 · 13 Jun 2008, 15:55 (Ref:2227891)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightStalk3r

It's being implied that the they run less boost in the race than they do in qualifying to reduce stress on the engine and thus reducing the chance of engine or turbo failure.

I had the impression that it was being implied that Peugeot was running more boost (than allowed??) to obtain a better showing in practice and during the race......

NightStalk3r · 13 Jun 2008, 15:57 (Ref:2227893)

Quote:

Originally Posted by henk4

I had the impression that it was being implied that Peugeot was running more boost (than allowed??) to obtain a better showing in practice and during the race......

Or Audi may not have been running maximum boost, we will never know.

JAG · 13 Jun 2008, 15:59 (Ref:2227896)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightStalk3r

It's being implied that the they run less boost in the race than they do in qualifying to reduce stress on the engine and thus reducing the chance of engine or turbo failure.

....which exacerbates the difference between Peugeot going for pole (and running an engine spec that MAY only be reliable for qualifying, not the 24hr's), Audi who are more concerned with a good race set-up, and privateers who don't have the finances or desire to risk their car/engine in qualifying, hence why the ACO will monitor race pace as opposed to qualifying.

NightStalk3r · 13 Jun 2008, 16:04 (Ref:2227899)

The reason i think Pug were so much faster is the fact that Sebring and all 3 LMS races have shown that the Pug is a fair bit faster in the corners than the Audi, I put it down to chassis more than Turbo boost.

JAG · 13 Jun 2008, 16:30 (Ref:2227915)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightStalk3r

The reason i think Pug were so much faster is the fact that Sebring and all 3 LMS races have shown that the Pug is a fair bit faster in the corners than the Audi, I put it down to chassis more than Turbo boost.

I'm sure it's mostly down to the chassis, but I think a second or two are down to a more aggresive engine spec in qualifying, whereas Audi know they can't compete on qualifying pace, so concentrate on race set-up.

PS, hows the LMS mod coming along?

NightStalk3r · 13 Jun 2008, 16:33 (Ref:2227916)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAG

PS, hows the LMS mod coming along?

Work continues on the Phisics and high detail cockpits.

As for the big budget teams being able to use more boost and not have to worry about buying a new engine if they blow it in Qualifying, surely they can stop this buy forcing teams to use there race engine in Qualifying?

henk4 · 13 Jun 2008, 16:54 (Ref:2227929)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAG

....which exacerbates the difference between Peugeot going for pole (and running an engine spec that MAY only be reliable for qualifying, not the 24hr's), Audi who are more concerned with a good race set-up, and privateers who don't have the finances or desire to risk their car/engine in qualifying, hence why the ACO will monitor race pace as opposed to qualifying.

this is all speculation. Do we know at what boost the Audi engine can sustain 24 hours? Why would the engine designers not aim at a sustainable boost at the limit of what ACO prescribes? This not the period of the 1.5 F1 Turbo cars any more, where there was no limitation and we saw these 1100-1200 BHP in qualifying trim.

The Peugeot is simply the better car.

Holt · 13 Jun 2008, 16:54 (Ref:2227930)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightStalk3r

The reason i think Pug were so much faster is the fact that Sebring and all 3 LMS races have shown that the Pug is a fair bit faster in the corners than the Audi, I put it down to chassis more than Turbo boost.

That seems very true, I remember watching in qualifying an Audi follow a Peugeot, it was able to stay close through the high speed sections but the Peugeot seemed to put it in the next gear when they got to the Porsche curves and it just dissappeared

The Peugeots do have a massive handling edge,

when comparing the sectors times of the #2 Audi to the #8 Peugeot,

Sector 1: Audi +0.484
Sector 2: Audi +0.958

Now sector 3, which includes the porsche curves

Sector 3: Audi +1.727

The fastest Audi is slower through the Porsche curves then the Peugeot #8 by 1.727 seconds, twice the gap in the other sectors where power is the key

TheNewBob · 13 Jun 2008, 16:56 (Ref:2227931)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAG

....which exacerbates the difference between Peugeot going for pole (and running an engine spec that MAY only be reliable for qualifying, not the 24hr's), Audi who are more concerned with a good race set-up, and privateers who don't have the finances or desire to risk their car/engine in qualifying, hence why the ACO will monitor race pace as opposed to qualifying.

I'm not up on the rules for this, but do the ACO allow different engines in qualifying and the race? If so, would one way they could control things would be to enforce the use of the race engine in qualifying?

gttouring · 13 Jun 2008, 17:19 (Ref:2227940)

sorry to chime in late for the race/quali chat
but holy BONKERS how do these cars lap at 3:18.xx??!?! wasn't last year like 3:25.xx??
and in 1999 it was just 3.29.6xx
how have these cars gotten so fast! that is incredibly fast
7 seconds up from a year ago!? what are they flying so low for?

henk4 · 13 Jun 2008, 17:27 (Ref:2227943)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNewBob

I'm not up on the rules for this, but do the ACO allow different engines in qualifying and the race? If so, would one way they could control things would be to enforce the use of the race engine in qualifying?

why would a manufacturer go to the trouble of providing a quali-engine for just a few seconds over a 24 Hour race? (Probably this might be one of the reasons why as far as I could find, there is no regulation regarding engine changes, but I guess during scrutineering ACO will take good notice of the engine in the car)

henk4 · 13 Jun 2008, 17:29 (Ref:2227945)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gttouring

sorry to chime in late for the race/quali chat
but holy BONKERS how do these cars lap at 3:18.xx??!?! wasn't last year like 3:25.xx??
and in 1999 it was just 3.29.6xx
how have these cars gotten so fast! that is incredibly fast
7 seconds up from a year ago!? what are they flying so low for?

tyre development......fine tuning....gives a 3.4% gain over the previous year, not so bad, but not sensationel...

NightStalk3r · 13 Jun 2008, 17:31 (Ref:2227949)

Quote:

Originally Posted by henk4

why would a manufacturer go to the trouble of providing a quali-engine for just a few seconds over a 24 Hour race? (Probably this might be one of the reasons why as far as I could find, there is no regulation regarding engine changes, but I guess during scrutineering ACO will take good notice of the engine in the car)

Many Teams use different engines for Qualifying than the race, all of the factory GT2's and GT1's, i would imagine all the Diesel P1's do aswell as many of the big budget Privateers.

nasdriv87 · 13 Jun 2008, 17:32 (Ref:2227950)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gttouring

sorry to chime in late for the race/quali chat
but holy BONKERS how do these cars lap at 3:18.xx??!?! wasn't last year like 3:25.xx??
and in 1999 it was just 3.29.6xx
how have these cars gotten so fast! that is incredibly fast
7 seconds up from a year ago!? what are they flying so low for?

i couldn't watch the last year qualify due to several problems here, but that qualify race wasn't done under rain conditions?!?!?!?

ger80 · 13 Jun 2008, 17:45 (Ref:2227958)

Seems like we will see Kruse/Schiller back on track

henk4 · 13 Jun 2008, 17:52 (Ref:2227962)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightStalk3r

Many Teams use different engines for Qualifying than the race, all of the factory GT2's and GT1's, i would imagine all the Diesel P1's do aswell as many of the big budget Privateers.

really? I have been walking in the pit lane for the last two years very regularly, and I never saw any team changing an engine....except when there was serious damage and certainly not as a routine activity after qualifying.

NightStalk3r · 13 Jun 2008, 18:01 (Ref:2227967)

Quote:

Originally Posted by henk4

really? I have been walking in the pit lane for the last two years very regularly, and I never saw any team changing an engine....except when there was serious damage and certainly not as a routine activity after qualifying.

Many teams were mentioned on Radio LeMans last night during Qualifying as "Installing there race engines"

henk4 · 13 Jun 2008, 18:07 (Ref:2227969)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightStalk3r

Many teams were mentioned on Radio LeMans last night during Qualifying as "Installing there race engines"

during qualifying??

NightStalk3r · 13 Jun 2008, 18:10 (Ref:2227972)

Quote:

Originally Posted by henk4

during qualifying??

Warmup is hardly enough time to run in a new engine is it.

henk4 · 13 Jun 2008, 18:16 (Ref:2227975)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightStalk3r

Warmup is hardly enough time to run in a new engine is it.

true, but many teams got their best times during the second session....

cmk · 13 Jun 2008, 18:21 (Ref:2227976)

Some GT2 teams will run their race engine hard because it's not as much of a concern. In a lot of cases, though, the best times on Thursday came from teams running race pace runs both days. A lot of those cars did not change engines, but even if they did, there is likely to be very little engine performance difference, and the setup was bound to be better on Thursday after a few hours of tweaking. Add to that the fact that the weather was more favourable yesterday.

JAG · 13 Jun 2008, 18:45 (Ref:2227992)

Quote:

Originally Posted by henk4

this is all speculation. Do we know at what boost the Audi engine can sustain 24 hours? Why would the engine designers not aim at a sustainable boost at the limit of what ACO prescribes? This not the period of the 1.5 F1 Turbo cars any more, where there was no limitation and we saw these 1100-1200 BHP in qualifying trim.

The Peugeot is simply the better car.

It's not neecessarily boost, that's just an obvious thing for a turbo car.

Peugeot will know what performance their engine gives, reliably, for 24hrs, but I'm sure they could eek out more power/torque for a 2-4 hour qualifying session.

For a new race technology like diesels, there's even more potential to see significant power/torque gains when reliabity isn't a top priority.

Qualifying/sprint/endurance engines are nothing new, even when restrictors are involved.

Engines manufactuers are making gains each year, even with older establlished engines such as the Judd. If Peugeot gain a reliable 15bhp over the winter, isn't it common sense they could , maybe, gain an unreliable 30bhp, which would be suitable for Le Mans qualifying, seeing as pole at this one race is worth the extra expense and hassle for Peugeot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by henk4

true, but many teams got their best times during the second session....

Nielson said Team Essex were fitting their race engine ready for the last qualifying session, so they could run it in.

henk4 · 13 Jun 2008, 18:53 (Ref:2227998)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAG

For a new race technology like diesels, there's even more potential to see significant power/torque gains when reliabity isn't a top priority.

I know, but it is always related to boost changes, (i got my own HDi Fap engine chipped, and boost was increased...)

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