Group A Rover 3500 SD1/Vitesse - History & Whereabouts

[KA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Hmmm, I presume they meant only other Class A car on terms with the Starions that year as from memory the Monzas and a few Capris were usually ahead of the Vitesse in Uniroyals!

I've got a feeling Dowsett worked for ICS at one point, maybe that's why he was the contact for the sales? As you say he certainly had close links with Pete Hall but Rouse as well come to that from various prodsaloon and prodsports entries in the 80's.

Yes, that rings a bell with me as well- I'm sure one of the various BTCC preview articles I've looked at mentions that Dowsett's day job was at ICS

[GBRM]

Pete sponsored Phil, so probably just used him as a conduit for selling the car - don't look too deeply into it!!

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by GBRM

Pete sponsored Phil, so probably just used him as a conduit for selling the car - don't look too deeply into it!!

A conduit eh? You feeling particularly scholarly today Gregor?

[GBRM]

Yep!!
Apparently Jeff Allam has now sold his SD1 - I don't know who to though.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by GBRM

Yep!!
Apparently Jeff Allam has now sold his SD1 - I don't know who to though.

Ok, get on the case man!!

[grouparover]

It went to Belgium.
Does anyone know of any more TWR cars for sale ?

[Alex E]

As you say it went to Belguim, I finally managed to re-unite some original Speedline wheels with it.
I have some 3 piece Speedlines for a Gp A Rover as in post 1284. If of interest to anyone.
Alex

[corliss]

Originally Posted by grouparover

It went to Belgium.
Does anyone know of any more TWR cars for sale ?

There is a possibility, and i mean just a possibility, that Chassis 001 might come up for sale, i have been to see the car but it is minus all its competition running gear, but is a genuine car currently in Bastos colours.
Skip

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by Alex E

As you say it went to Belguim, I finally managed to re-unite some original Speedline wheels with it.
I have some 3 piece Speedlines for a Gp A Rover as in post 1284. If of interest to anyone.
Alex

Speaking of wheels, what dimensions were the TWR Rovers using? I think they were allowed to run 11" in width and the early group A years the Ronals look like 16" in diameter, but I seem to remember that the later Speedline rims were 17" - and what kind of dimensions would the tires be then?

Jesper

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

Speaking of wheels, what dimensions were the TWR Rovers using? I think they were allowed to run 11" in width and the early group A years the Ronals look like 16" in diameter, but I seem to remember that the later Speedline rims were 17" - and what kind of dimensions would the tires be then?

Jesper

Good question.

IIRC, in Grp 1 trim Capri's ran 13" and SD1's 15".

In Grp A, not so sure but I have a feeling the Rovers ran 15" to start off with would that be right anyone?

[Jesper OH]

Looking, in vain, for production figures, but seems to remember the road going 3500 SD1s had 14" diameter rims and wouldn't be allowed with anything beyound that with Group 1 regulations. Group A had a rule about +/- 2" from 1988 and beyond - the -2" would likely confer to rally conditions on a snowy conditions.

OT: I'm asking for a comprehensive book about the merger of Austin and Morris (dating to 1952?) and all prior and later additions to what ended as the Rover brand in early 2000s. Has this book been written, then by whom and where to collect it?

Jesper

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

Looking, in vain, for production figures, but seems to remember the road going 3500 SD1s had 14" diameter rims and wouldn't be allowed with anything beyound that with Group 1 regulations. Group A had a rule about +/- 2" from 1988 and beyond - the -2" would likely confer to rally conditions on a snowy conditions.

OT: I'm asking for a comprehensive book about the merger of Austin and Morris (dating to 1952?) and all prior and later additions to what ended as the Rover brand in early 2000s. Has this book been written, then by whom and where to collect it?

Jesper

Hi Jesper, this isn't a book but there's one hell of a lot of information (inside & outside) about that and much more on this website:
http://www.aronline.co.uk/

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Hi Jesper, this isn't a book but there's one hell of a lot of information (inside & outside) about that and much more on this website:
http://www.aronline.co.uk/

Thank you for the link. I know the site, probably inspired by it to want a printed version (it's quite good, the site). A long time ago I spend some time on getting the history line of the Austin-Rover Group as well as that of the competing Rootes group, in all it's incarnations.

Jesper

[Alex E]

Jesper,
The 17" Speedlines I had were 9" width. The 3 piece Speedlines were 16". The Gp A regs eventually used an overall width to include the wheel & tyre. Not sure when this came into force but certainly they would not have been as big as 11". You can find the original regs on the FIA historic site.
Alex

[GBRM]

Originally Posted by KA

The earliest French cars- the plain white one from 1980/81. They weren't run by TWR (without looking back through the thread, it was something like 'Autorama?')- but were they TWR or DPR builds?

According to Racingsportscars.com, the 'Unipart' Group 2 car from the 1980 TT was a Dave Price Racing entry
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-09-14-001.jpg

Funnily enough, over on the Autosport/Atlas forum, in a long-running thread of 'Personal pics from UK racing', amongst a major outbreak of Renault 5TS shots, the DPR/Triplex cars turned up over the weekend....
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/931/ms3ij4.jpg
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/2017/ms2oy7.jpg

Going back a little bit I know (pages 50 and 51) but I've had an e-mail from the current owner of one of the DPR cars:-

"I had an e-mail from DPR, he said my car is the last complete car he built....he built a total of 3 complete cars and 6 shells".

The current owner does read this thread, but for some reason can't post, so if anyone has any comments on this then please post them.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by GBRM

Yep!!
Apparently Jeff Allam has now sold his SD1 - I don't know who to though.

It will be running in the Belgian Historic Championship.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by GBRM

Going back a little bit I know (pages 50 and 51) but I've had an e-mail from the current owner of one of the DPR cars:-

"I had an e-mail from DPR, he said my car is the last complete car he built....he built a total of 3 complete cars and 6 shells".

The current owner does read this thread, but for some reason can't post, so if anyone has any comments on this then please post them.

Interesting stuff, would like to learn more. The car's owner isn't banned is he??!!

[corliss]

Originally Posted by GBRM

Going back a little bit I know (pages 50 and 51) but I've had an e-mail from the current owner of one of the DPR cars:-

"I had an e-mail from DPR, he said my car is the last complete car he built....he built a total of 3 complete cars and 6 shells".

The current owner does read this thread, but for some reason can't post, so if anyone has any comments on this then please post them.

Check out the detail on the South African Car, definately looks like an Ex DPR shell or maybe one of the TWR Grp1 shells, small details in cockpit area and underbonnet, also where did all the Portugese cars come from, the ones in S1 trim, they look like ex Grp1. earlier threads suggest that at least one was updated to GrpA spec, red car, where did it come from originally?
Interesting that DPR built 6 shells, How many did TWR build? only 2 cars were ever seen together, but i have studied photo`s and it appears that there were more than 2, also my shell, ex Sanyo car has No5 acid etched on front cross beam, also engraved `5`, ??
French car i posted way way back was built by AR Motorsport, John Davenport involvement, tested at Thruxton i think in late 70`s, later cars were built by Autorama in Paris,

[KA]

I think both the early Portuguese Rovers came from France.

IIRC both your pics are from 1984- the red 'Traffic Textiles' car is Pedro Meireles and I think the grey/white one Artur Mendes.

This report from Estoril in 1983
http://scgtclassic.com.sapo.pt/Sintr..._Cabanelas.htm
includes pics of both the Meireles car, and a Marlboro-liveried car,
http://scgtclassic.com.sapo.pt/Cabanelas1.jpg
which according to the report was an ex-Rene Metge car, driven by Jose Peres- I think this later became the Mendes car in your pic.

One interesting detail- all the pics I've seen of French Marlboro cars seem to show RHD, whereas your pics show them as LHD. I have got a couple of pics of a RHD 'Traffic' car though, so I'm assuming both were converted to LHD at some point (Either that or we've got more Rovers in Portugal than I thought....)

There was a third car- an ex-TWR chassis raced by Helder Oliveira from 1986- I've been told this was an ex-Bastos car, and was Oliveira's second Rover- he'd previously raced the ex-Peres/Mendes car

[KA]

This post sheds a bit more light on the Portuguese cars
http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....&postcount=504

[KA]

Reposting some picture links from earlier in the thread, showing the two ex-French Marlboro cars in Portugal

Jose Peres, presumably 1983. Note the car still looks like it's carrying Marlboro colours
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5863/peres83yx5.jpg

Pedro Meireles/Traffic car. Looks like an RHD car in the first pic...
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/5...reles83th5.jpg
http://img177.imageshack.us/i/pedromeireles2dn9.jpg/
http://img166.imageshack.us/i/pedromeirelesyb6.jpg/

Artur Mendes, 1984 Think this is the Peres car
http://img143.imageshack.us/i/arturmendesvv6.jpg/
http://img177.imageshack.us/i/arturmendes2to0.jpg/

Jose Nelson, possibly 1986- again the Peres/Mendes car AFAIK
http://img88.imageshack.us/i/josnels...er3500ll9.jpg/
http://img88.imageshack.us/i/josnelsonrover3500sy4.jpg/

Helder Oliveira, presumably 1986/7. An ex-TWR car, and has recently been active in historic racing in Portugal with the current owner, in Bastos livery (give or take a few modern sponsors).
I've seen other pics of the car, incuding some I'm told were taken when it was first delivered, and it's plain white in all of them- though I've been told it was a Bastos car at some point in '85.
Apparently he'd previously owned the Peres/Mendes car
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/4619/helder86ct3.jpg

I believe the Meireles car still survives in Portugal- I've seen pics of a silver SD1 in Portugal described as the ex-Meireles car on another forum- unfortunately the link I posted about 3 years ago in this thread no longer works...

[GBRM]

I don't thionk he is banned!! Anyway, photos below:-

[KA]

Originally Posted by GBRM

Going back a little bit I know (pages 50 and 51) but I've had an e-mail from the current owner of one of the DPR cars:-

"I had an e-mail from DPR, he said my car is the last complete car he built....he built a total of 3 complete cars and 6 shells".

The current owner does read this thread, but for some reason can't post, so if anyone has any comments on this then please post them.

Looking at the pics, that's definitely the South African car....

http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....&postcount=607

[GBRM]

Yes, that's definitely Gunter's car - I do have some more pics if needed.

[KA]

So, if DPR built three cars, which one went to South Africa, and where do those 6 shells fit into the story....?

I'm guessing the 3 cars are accounted for by the two BTCC 'Triplex' cars, and the Group 2 'Unipart' car from the 1980 TT.

This appears to be the 'Unipart' car...
http://forsale.classicandperformance...ad=12260&d=953
....and the history given suggests it was racing in Thundersaloons in the mid-80's, so I guess the Group 2 car isn't the one in South Africa
So, are we talking about Gunter's car starting life as one of the BTCC 'Triplex' cars then?

I know next-to-nothing about the South African racing scene, but Mike & Paddy O'Sullivan ran a Rover- presumably this one- in the Kyalami Group C sportscar races in 1983 & 84, so it must have arrived in South Africa before 1983?

Back to the '3 complete cars and 6 shells', I'm probably being a bit dense here, but does that mean 3 complete cars and 6 more shells, or 6 shells including the 3 complete cars? Either way, where did these extra shells go- kept as spares, or sold on to other teams?

Were the Patrick, or French Autorama/Marlboro cars built up around DPR bodyshells? The French cars were certainly RHD...
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/2...geroverzs3.jpg