Group A Rover 3500 SD1/Vitesse - History & Whereabouts

[GBRM]

Gunter's car is the last complete car that DPR built (according to Dave Price) and I think built in 1980 specifically for SA - will check that with Gunter.
Without casting doubt on the Unipart car but maybe it's not a DPR car? Is there any other info to go on other than the advert?
Gunter can't register on the forum for some reason - there isn't an issue with SA e-mail addresses is there?

[KA]

Originally Posted by GBRM

Gunter's car is the last complete car that DPR built (according to Dave Price) and I think built in 1980 specifically for SA - will check that with Gunter.
Without casting doubt on the Unipart car but maybe it's not a DPR car? Is there any other info to go on other than the advert?
Gunter can't register on the forum for some reason - there isn't an issue with SA e-mail addresses is there?

The Unipart car is listed as a Dave Price Racing entry in the 1980 TT programme...
http://www.racingsportscars.com/cove...980-09-14e.jpg
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-09-14-001.jpg
Original 1980 pics of it seem a bit thin on the ground on the web.

I won't swear this is correct, but I think it only did the 1980 TT with DPR, and then nothing else before being sold off for club racing a while later. (I've got a nagging thought that Mark Hales might have been involved with it at some point?) Pretty sure I've recently seen adverts for it in old Autosports from the mid-80's, but don't remember if it was by DPR or a later owner.

Maybe the Unipart wasn't a DPR car?- totally wild speculation, but could it have been built in-house by BL Motorsport then farmed out to Dave Price to run it at the TT?

If Gunter's car was built specifically for South Africa (and wasn't the TT car), then the TT car coming from BL Motorsport would certainly allow for the South African car being the 3rd DPR car?

The Bill Price 'BMC Competitions Dept' book goes up to the end of the TR8 rally period, but I don't think it mentions the Rovers other than in passing- I'll have a look

[GBRM]

I think Gunter's car was built specifically for SA and it is Gp2 spec.
I have asked Gunter to double-check.
I think the theory of the TT car being built in-house (or even TWR) but then run by DPR has some mileage.
Curiouser and curiouser cried Alice!!

[Gunter Drotschie]

Hi Guys, AT LAST i am registered!!!! (i am really stupid with computers)
Just a bit of history on my car.... it was built new and supplied by DPR in 1980/81 as a GRP 2 car.
I presume the build of the car started in 1980 and ended in 1981,reason i say this is that the original invoice(yes,it came with the car!)from DPR is dated 22nd April 1981. The car arrived in Johannesburg and was stopped by customs in 27th of April 1981!, 2 important facts....#1 the car was sent via Airfreight,which was a bold and expensive option way back in 1981 and #2 the customs official was convinced this was a 'road car' and not a 'race car' which carried preferential import duties. The story goes that the customs official said "a race car is an open cockpit single seater,like Jody Scheckter drives!" After various letters from Rover etc, the car was customs released. What makes this car unique is that it is in EXTREMELY original condition...not a single panel,glass or anything has been replaced,except for the radiator which has been changed for a modern ali version. Small detail like gauges,seat,door panels,wheels etc etc are still exactly as in 1981. What makes this car purchase for me so unique is the unbelievable documentation that came with the car.Other than the original invoice, there is also the 'hand written' shakedown test at Brands Hatch before the car got shipped to South Africa, it is documented as driver "Jeff", which i presume would of been Jeff Allam.
The original engine(which it still has) was built and supplied by Hesketh.

[KA]

Originally Posted by KA

The Bill Price 'BMC Competitions Dept' book goes up to the end of the TR8 rally period, but I don't think it mentions the Rovers other than in passing- I'll have a look

There's no mention at all of the Group 2 car for the TT in the Bill Price book- the only mention of Rover SD1 activity is in a desciption of the end of the BL Motorsport department at Abingdon, where he says that 'the motorsport programme would be replaced by a series of other activities based on the Metro and Rover 3500' (The Metro activity, of course would be the 6R4- Price mentions a Metro shell being sent to Williams, although he says that the Department knew very little about the project)

[KA]

Originally Posted by Gunter Drotschie

Hi Guys, AT LAST i am registered!!!! (i am really stupid with computers)
Just a bit of history on my car.... it was built new and supplied by DPR in 1980/81 as a GRP 2 car.
I presume the build of the car started in 1980 and ended in 1981,reason i say this is that the original invoice(yes,it came with the car!)from DPR is dated 22nd April 1981. The car arrived in Johannesburg and was stopped by customs in 27th of April 1981!, 2 important facts....#1 the car was sent via Airfreight,which was a bold and expensive option way back in 1981 and #2 the customs official was convinced this was a 'road car' and not a 'race car' which carried preferential import duties. The story goes that the customs official said "a race car is an open cockpit single seater,like Jody Scheckter drives!" After various letters from Rover etc, the car was customs released. What makes this car unique is that it is in EXTREMELY original condition...not a single panel,glass or anything has been replaced,except for the radiator which has been changed for a modern ali version. Small detail like gauges,seat,door panels,wheels etc etc are still exactly as in 1981. What makes this car purchase for me so unique is the unbelievable documentation that came with the car.Other than the original invoice, there is also the 'hand written' shakedown test at Brands Hatch before the car got shipped to South Africa, it is documented as driver "Jeff", which i presume would of been Jeff Allam.
The original engine(which it still has) was built and supplied by Hesketh.

Hi Gunter- Good to hear from you!

As I said in an earlier post, I know little or nothing about the early/mid-80's South African racing scene, so it would be good to know a little of the car's history in SA- All I really know is that a Rover- I'm guessing your car- appeared a couple of times in the Kyalami sportscar race when it was a World Championship round in 1983/4.

Re: the Brands shakedown test notes, yes, I'd be fairly surprised if 'Jeff' was anyone other than Jeff Allam

[KA]

Originally Posted by KA

The Unipart car is listed as a Dave Price Racing entry in the 1980 TT programme...
http://www.racingsportscars.com/cove...980-09-14e.jpg
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-09-14-001.jpg
Original 1980 pics of it seem a bit thin on the ground on the web.

I won't swear this is correct, but I think it only did the 1980 TT with DPR, and then nothing else before being sold off for club racing a while later. (I've got a nagging thought that Mark Hales might have been involved with it at some point?) Pretty sure I've recently seen adverts for it in old Autosports from the mid-80's, but don't remember if it was by DPR or a later owner.

Maybe the Unipart wasn't a DPR car?- totally wild speculation, but could it have been built in-house by BL Motorsport then farmed out to Dave Price to run it at the TT?

The Rover presence at the 1980 TT seems to have been 3 cars- the Group 2 DPR/Unipart car for Allam/Needell, and Group 1 cars from DPR/Triplex (Rex Greenslade/Brett Riley/Roger Clark) and Patrick Motorsport (Brian Muir/Dave Brodie).
Looking back in the thread, there's a mention from Martin Thomas that the Group 2 car was sold to Mark Hales- but by Patrick Motorsport, rather than DPR....

Don't think I've posted this link before- found on a VW forum, a pic from a Mallory modsaloon race in 1982- Geoff Thomas' Autocavan Golf and Mark Hales' Rover- presumably this is the ex-TT Unipart car. Note the Patrick Motorsport sunstrip.....

http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/y...etc/img014.jpg

[Gunter Drotschie]

The car was imported and raced by the O'Sullivan brothers(Mike and Paddy) to compete in the STAR Modified championship. As you say, it also competed in a few of the Famous annual Wymn's 1000km Sports car races. The car was sold and raced by Dick Sorenson for a season or 2, then ended up back in the O'Sullivan's possession...i recently aquired it from its original owner,Mike O'Sullivan. The car competed and raced competitively till the early 90's, since then it has had hardly any track time, which i think contributes to its current 'unmolestered' condition.

[GBRM]

Originally Posted by GBRM

I think the theory of the TT car being built in-house (or even TWR) but then run by DPR has some mileage.
Curiouser and curiouser cried Alice!!

Now that Gunter can post I'll let him tell his car's story.
I will retract the above though and I'm sure Gunter won't mind me saying that we now have proof the TT car was built by DPR as a one-off for the TT for Jeff and Tiffany Dell but it was the only race DPR were involved with it.
Now, any takers on this:-


I have to say it looked and sounded v quiet in qualifying and the race this weekend just gone but it was actually v fast, so I reckon it was a proper car but I don't know who or which one!!

[KA]

Originally Posted by GBRM

Now that Gunter can post I'll let him tell his car's story.
I will retract the above though and I'm sure Gunter won't mind me saying that we now have proof the TT car was built by DPR as a one-off for the TT for Jeff and Tiffany Dell but it was the only race DPR were involved with it.
Now, any takers on this:-


I have to say it looked and sounded v quiet in qualifying and the race this weekend just gone but it was actually v fast, so I reckon it was a proper car but I don't know who or which one!!

Might be the Charles Williams car?- If so, I think it's an ex-Dennis Leech BTCC car, which was a reshell of (or at least incorporated parts from) a crashed 1985-season TWR/Bastos car.

[KA]

Originally Posted by Gunter Drotschie

The car was imported and raced by the O'Sullivan brothers(Mike and Paddy) to compete in the STAR Modified championship. As you say, it also competed in a few of the Famous annual Wymn's 1000km Sports car races. The car was sold and raced by Dick Sorenson for a season or 2, then ended up back in the O'Sullivan's possession...i recently aquired it from its original owner,Mike O'Sullivan. The car competed and raced competitively till the early 90's, since then it has had hardly any track time, which i think contributes to its current 'unmolestered' condition.

Thanks Gunter

Just been looking around on Google and turned up a pic of what I assume is your car painted red?:

Kyalami 1984 http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq1nZRxJ

[Gunter Drotschie]

100% , the car raced in the red and yellow livery for the '84 Wynn's 1000KM due to sponsorship from a local business called Bonanza.
The pic is slightly confusing as the car is basically 'under' the Pretoria Brick signage and many people think there is a link between the 2.
If you look to the rear of the pic, you will see the MOSPORT banner,this was the cars pits and was on its way down and out of Pitlane.
MOSPORT= (Mike O'sullivan SPORT)
I presume the car was still red and yellow when it was sold to Dick Sorenson as he raced it in basically the same colours. When the O'Sullivan brothers bought the car back, they changed it to its original green and white colours as it was when it was raced initially.
Just for interest, 'Pretoria Brick' was a company owned by George Fouches dad, George Fouche raced sportscar internationally,was based in Japan for a few years and did a good few Le Mans 24 hour races in the 80's and early 90's.

[GBRM]

Originally Posted by GBRM

I think the theory of the TT car being built in-house (or even TWR) but then run by DPR has some mileage.
Curiouser and curiouser cried Alice!!

Apparently this car is far from original and was only run by DPR for the TT and that was it - I think the advert is v mis-leading from what I've seen but I'll let Gunter share his info.
Anyone got any info on the car I saw at Spa??

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by GBRM

Apparently this car is far from original and was only run by DPR for the TT and that was it - I think the advert is v mis-leading from what I've seen but I'll let Gunter share his info.
Anyone got any info on the car I saw at Spa??

Good stuff, seems there maybe more to the DPR cars in TWR awnings link in the Oulton pic a few pages ago after all....

Yes, like KA I reckon the Spa Bastos car might be the Charles Williams Vitesse, but if as you say it was going pretty quickly then maybe there was someone handy at the wheel? Anything in the programme Gregor?

[KA]

Originally Posted by Gunter Drotschie

100% , the car raced in the red and yellow livery for the '84 Wynn's 1000KM due to sponsorship from a local business called Bonanza.
The pic is slightly confusing as the car is basically 'under' the Pretoria Brick signage and many people think there is a link between the 2.
If you look to the rear of the pic, you will see the MOSPORT banner,this was the cars pits and was on its way down and out of Pitlane.
MOSPORT= (Mike O'sullivan SPORT)
I presume the car was still red and yellow when it was sold to Dick Sorenson as he raced it in basically the same colours. When the O'Sullivan brothers bought the car back, they changed it to its original green and white colours as it was when it was raced initially.
Just for interest, 'Pretoria Brick' was a company owned by George Fouches dad, George Fouche raced sportscar internationally,was based in Japan for a few years and did a good few Le Mans 24 hour races in the 80's and early 90's.

Thanks Gunter- I'd seen the pic before but wasn't sure which race it came from.

Yes, I remember seeing George Fouche in a Pretoria Brick-sponsored Kremer Porsche at Silverstone in about 1985

[GBRM]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Yes, like KA I reckon the Spa Bastos car might be the Charles Williams Vitesse, but if as you say it was going pretty quickly then maybe there was someone handy at the wheel? Anything in the programme Gregor?

Lol - I don't buy programmes my dear chap!!
I'll find out who was driving it though - it was half as quiet as my Dad's old 3.0 litre Capri and finished above "Skid" so it was being driven very tidily.

N.B. - just checked results - the two drivers were both called C Williams and they finished 9th overall and 2nd in class - that was extremely good going!!

[Gunter Drotschie]

David Price has confirmed to me that he did built the UNIPART car for the TT to be raced with them at this once off event.
It seems the car has extensively modified from there as it no longer has its original drivetrain nor brakes etc etc, obviously due to its use in Thunder saloon and other forms of club racing.
One big error in the ad is the fact that they say "the only GRP2 DPR car ever built!!"
Anyone know who the current owner is? i e-mailed a previous European company that was advertising the car some pics of my car "the other GRP 2 DPR built one" , still haven't heard back from them.

[Sunbmw]

Originally Posted by Gunter Drotschie

David Price has confirmed to me that he did built the UNIPART car for the TT to be raced with them at this once off event.
It seems the car has extensively modified from there as it no longer has its original drivetrain nor brakes etc etc, obviously due to its use in Thunder saloon and other forms of club racing.
One big error in the ad is the fact that they say "the only GRP2 DPR car ever built!!"
Anyone know who the current owner is? i e-mailed a previous European company that was advertising the car some pics of my car "the other GRP 2 DPR built one" , still haven't heard back from them.

Hi, if this is the car you are refering to, it is for sale not so far from me by this gentleman.................

http://www.philstott.co.uk/roversd1v8s.html

A friend of mine has seen it and it is very nice, but as you say, not very original. It has some "Boxy" type arches on it, that look like modified Mk2 Escort "Forest" arches.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Sunbmw

Hi, if this is the car you are refering to, it is for sale not so far from me by this gentleman.................

http://www.philstott.co.uk/roversd1v8s.html

A friend of mine has seen it and it is very nice, but as you say, not very original. It has some "Boxy" type arches on it, that look like modified Mk2 Escort "Forest" arches.

Is that the car we saw mentioned with picture links back along that Allam and Needell shared in a Dijon historic enduro event?

[KA]

Originally Posted by Sunbmw

Hi, if this is the car you are refering to, it is for sale not so far from me by this gentleman.................

http://www.philstott.co.uk/roversd1v8s.html

A friend of mine has seen it and it is very nice, but as you say, not very original. It has some "Boxy" type arches on it, that look like modified Mk2 Escort "Forest" arches.

Yes, reading that spec it seems to be some way from original- although compare the arches with those in this 1980 TT pic...
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-09-14-001.jpg

The fuel fillers are different (look like there may be two in the bootlid, rather than one between the rear lights, as on the modern pics and Gunter's South African car) and there doesn't look as if there's a rear spoiler..

...then if it's the same car as in the 1982 Mark Hales pic, different (or modified) arches again and a totally different front spoiler arrangement...
http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/y...etc/img014.jpg

I'd really like to find a clear pic of the car at the 1980 TT...

Originally Posted by chunterer

Is that the car we saw mentioned with picture links back along that Allam and Needell shared in a Dijon historic enduro event?

I think so, yes....

[Gavin RS]

Hello Gunther

Gavin Spiller here, I have been following this thread for a long time now and if you go back a long way, long before you bought the O'Sullivan Rover you will see all the pics and article I posted before it was for sale.

Glad you made it onto this forum, and its nice to see the interest in the car, I think it is brilliant the way everyone trys to help with info and history of the various cars and not just to forget them.

Gavin

[Gunter Drotschie]

Hi Gavin, great to see you on this forum!!! you are 100%, this forum and this specific thread is AWESOME, a real treasure trove of info from very informed guys!!!
Sadly Rovers were never very popular as race cars in South Africa, but there are a few of us that love them.
Gavin, how is your Rover race car coming along??

[Gavin RS]

Originally Posted by Gunter Drotschie

Hi Gavin, great to see you on this forum!!! you are 100%, this forum and this specific thread is AWESOME, a real treasure trove of info from very informed guys!!!
Sadly Rovers were never very popular as race cars in South Africa, but there are a few of us that love them.
Gavin, how is your Rover race car coming along??

Hi Gunter

The knowledge on this forum is brilliant

Yes it is a pity there were not more Rovers racing over hear, muy car is coming on slowly, hopefully be ready for Marque cars in December.

Let me not deviate from this forum I will post more info on our africanmusclecar forum

Regarding your car It was always a puzzle to me as to who built the car as Paddy told me it was built as a race car from the start in the UK but he never said by who. So now with this forum you can piece together all the history which is just brilliant.

Cheers

Gavin

[chunterer]

Did the early TWR Rally cars run similar Ronals to the circuit cars?

[charlie1williams]

Originally Posted by GBRM

Lol - I don't buy programmes my dear chap!!
I'll find out who was driving it though - it was half as quiet as my Dad's old 3.0 litre Capri and finished above "Skid" so it was being driven very tidily.

N.B. - just checked results - the two drivers were both called C Williams and they finished 9th overall and 2nd in class - that was extremely good going!!

Hi, Charlie Williams here. It was indeed our car at Spa pictured above (Ex TWR before he smashed it up at Zolder '85 or '86 I forget which, then reshelled by Dennis Leech) with myself and Dad - Chris - at the helm. Was running well at Spa. Not sure how to use this website, do I reply to thread or use the quote options?!