BTCC 2008 Off-season: News & Rumours

[cos]

Originally Posted by KA

Seems to be some speculation on other forums that it could be Thomas Erdos- if that's true, it would be a good call by the team, although I think there's an LMS date clash somewhere?

Knockhill clashes with one of the LMS rounds (can't remember which). Seeing how a lot of the smaller teams seem to skip the Scottish trip that might not be too much of an issue.

[kingo86]

The grid is looking very healthy for the opening rounds next weekend. Has anyone heard anything about Fiona Leggate? I know she is unlikly to get on the BTCC grid, but does anyone know the plans for 08.

[Icebaby]

Originally Posted by redshoes

They aren't classified as manufacturers.

TD did get some technical support from Honda when they were building the cars but no funding. That technical support would not be available to any other team so TD can not be classified as independents. However, Honda are not paying the required entry fee so they are not classified as a manufacturer team either.

They can score Driver and Team points, but not Manufacturer, Indie Driver or Indie Team points.[*]

BMW will provide technical support to anyone who wants to pay for it so someone like Jackon (or WSR last year) can get that technical support and still be an independent.
[*] EDIT : That was last year. Looks like TD will be independents this year

Im completly lost now on this!

So If a manufacturer provides support but does not pay the manufacturer entry fee they are classed as Independants?, for the sake of £6.5 grand I would say thats money well spent for Honda and BMW to go with WSR and Dynamics as an official entry as they will re-coup this easily ...although are the manufactuers looking at it and thinking we benefit anyway without having to commit further?

If there is no assistance from these manufactuers what stops both teams removing all brand logos from the car as at the end of the day the manufacturer has not paid anything to have their badge on the car.

Im still all at sea over manufactuer vs Independant as teams like BMW dealer aka jackson motorsport are taking the best of both worlds it seems?

[cos]

Originally Posted by Icebaby

Im completly lost now on this!

So If a manufacturer provides support but does not pay the manufacturer entry fee they are classed as Independants?

Not necessarily - in Dynamics' case they receive support from Honda, but Honda (for whatever reason) have not registered for the manufacturer's championship. The support given by Honda is deemed to be over and above what any other team running Hondas would get, and thus Dynamics are in a strange case of being neither an independent or a manufacturer entry.

for the sake of £6.5 grand I would say thats money well spent for Honda and BMW to go with WSR and Dynamics as an official entry as they will re-coup this easily ...although are the manufactuers looking at it and thinking we benefit anyway without having to commit further?

See 2004 - Honda registered as a manufacturer but aside from Chilton driving for something called "Team Honda" they didn't market it at all.

Im still all at sea over manufactuer vs Independant as teams like BMW dealer aka jackson motorsport are taking the best of both worlds it seems?

Per the regs, Jackson is an independent because the team "does not receive any substantial and direct or indirect financial assistance from any manufacturer or importer above the level which would normally be available to other competitors who may compete with the same marque of car". BMW Dealer Team may well be getting technical support from BMW engineers, but that's because the team pay for it. If BMW were providing assistance for free or at a substantially reduced rate the team would probably not be classed as independent.

[Sodemo]

Just booked my tickets for Brands Hatch.

Awesome, etc.

[Koulle]

Originally Posted by cos

Not necessarily - in Dynamics' case they receive support from Honda, but Honda (for whatever reason) have not registered for the manufacturer's championship. The support given by Honda is deemed to be over and above what any other team running Hondas would get, and thus Dynamics are in a strange case of being neither an independent or a manufacturer entry.



See 2004 - Honda registered as a manufacturer but aside from Chilton driving for something called "Team Honda" they didn't market it at all.



Per the regs, Jackson is an independent because the team "does not receive any substantial and direct or indirect financial assistance from any manufacturer or importer above the level which would normally be available to other competitors who may compete with the same marque of car". BMW Dealer Team may well be getting technical support from BMW engineers, but that's because the team pay for it. If BMW were providing assistance for free or at a substantially reduced rate the team would probably not be classed as independent.

Well said.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Icebaby

Im completly lost now on this!

So If a manufacturer provides support but does not pay the manufacturer entry fee they are classed as Independants?

They are not classed as independents.

Put it this way. If you started a new team you could get the same technical support from BMW as WSR/Jackson/Motorbase, providing of course you were prepared to pay for it. That equal availability of support means that all those team can be independents. If you approached Honda and asked for the same level of support as they give to Dynamics you would not get it. As Dynamics get more support than would be available to any other team running Civic they can not be classed as independents.

The rule has been around many years and was intended to stop manufacturers giving preferential treatment to one team - effectively creating a second-string semi-works team. It's an unusual situation where a team becomes neither works nor independent, but it's by no means unique.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by ATF

Hughes is confirmed on the entry list as racing an Integra, but btcctimes.com says this:

"Kartworld return with their aging MG ZS, although Jason Hughes was expected to announce using a Honda Integra for the coming season."

So which is it?

Originally Posted by Alfa Fan

I'd believe btcc.net over Touring Car Times on this. We'll have to wait until the team's press releases start going up for full confirmation however.

For the unbelievers..
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/65925
Hughes will start the season in the MG. Despite having put a deposit down in October he still has paid for the Integra yet.

[gravel_monkey]

anyone know what has happened to fiona leggate. i will be honest and say i have a crush on her and will miss her if she is not racing?

[Icebaby]

I would not be suprised to see the MG up for sale and Fiona looking at a "lesser series" to re-establish herself as a top driver, I cant see a return to the BTCC unless heavily funded by a sponser.

[rdjones]

Originally Posted by Icebaby

I would not be suprised to see the MG up for sale and Fiona looking at a "lesser series" to re-establish herself as a top driver, I cant see a return to the BTCC unless heavily funded by a sponser.

From what I have read elsewhere they thought they had securred a big new sponsor but they changed their mind and pulled out at the last minute. She still hopes to be out this year but maybe not all the rounds.

[Sodemo]

Such a shame there are not more works teams in the BTCC.

[BootsOntheSide]

To an extent I agree with Sodemo, but at least we have 3 BMW-powered teams of equal competitiveness, and lots of genuinely good drivers in competitive Indie teams. Gio, Neal and Plato are clear title favourites, but we can't rule out Turkington, Jackson or Shedden either.

[cos]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

To an extent I agree with Sodemo, but at least we have 3 BMW-powered teams of equal competitiveness, and lots of genuinely good drivers in competitive Indie teams. Gio, Neal and Plato are clear title favourites, but we can't rule out Turkington, Jackson or Shedden either.

Speaking of the BMW teams, I see Motorbase have gone for the 6-speed sequential box for their cars, whereas Jackson and RAC will be using the 5-speed H pattern. Should be interesting to see which comes out on top.

[kingo86]

I agree Turkington and Shedden could be contenders in the championship. Especially as both WSR and TD can match any manufactor team.

However even with Jackson's very fast pace in the two test sessions i feel his lack of support from a team mate will be a big disadvantage. Look at how Chilton helped Gio win the title. I think the team would have been better trying to run the old car with a support driver. Also alot of drivers can be fast over one or two laps. Chilton in the Vectra is a perfect example but had problems over race distance.

But if Matt drives as well as last season, i think that 2009 with a new team mate or a manafacter drive he could be champion.

[Sodemo]

As long as the professionalism level is high, then I dont mind a field of indies, its just when I see teams entering that don't even have the competancy to compete in Ford Fiestas that it irritates me.

At least with a works squad you are more or less guaranteed a decent pair of drivers, good engineering and a full budget.

[awrb]

We can't rule out Chilton though. I get the feeling that when Gio came they built the car to suit him, not Tom, cos' his results seemed to get worse. I think that in a car he likes, Chilton can be a serious contender for the title.

I'm behind Turkington though... Hope he can win it this year.

[kingo86]

True, Tom did start to drop off the pace during his time in the Vectra, compared to Gio, but i think this is more down to Chilton's driving style more than 888 being byest to Gio. Tom likes sliding the car through corners side ways which i feel short wheel base cars do better, hense the fact Tom was better suited to the Astra. However if he gets even status at TD with Flash then Chilton could be up there. But he needs to be more consistent and keep his concentration in the latter parts of the races.

[Sodemo]

I sure hope SEAT don't run away with it.

They are no doubt sandbagging at present.

[kingo86]

I agree sodemo.

There is no way Seat are so close to the start of the season with a car that is having as many teething problems as they are saying. Everyone who is intrested in touring cars knows how powerful the Leon TDI is from the opening round of the WTCC. Last season the disadvantage of the Leon was its straight line speed against the Vectra. IMO there past that.

VXR will no doubt have to use there three cars as a team to retain the championship, and unfortantly i can't see Gio and Neal being able to do that.

If not before the end of the season definatly for 2009 season i can see the 888 team switching to a TDI version of the Vectra.

[Sodemo]

They should nip the TDi growth in the bud now before we have an entire field of TDi's.

[cos]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

They should nip the TDi growth in the bud now before we have an entire field of TDi's.

Why?

[kingo86]

I think sodemo is right.

The TDI's would be good and make for faster racing, but it would destroy the indie field, as there would be no option for up and coming drivers to buy older cars to break into the BTCC ranks. The cars would be too expensive at first and would reduce the entry lists.

Also as the cars would be more speciallised the teams would have to be more WSR and TD than BTC or Kartworld.

I can see a case of dejarvous. With the super touring era high powered big budget teams killing the sport off!

[JorritVD]

Originally Posted by kingo86

The TDI's would be good and make for faster racing

We don't know yet. We saw the BMWs in Curitiba they were fast in the race. And the regulations could be changed in the future.

[THIM]

Originally Posted by JorritVD

We don't know yet. We saw the BMWs in Curitiba they were fast in the race. And the regulations could be changed in the future.

BMWs were fast, but:
1. Track suited RWDs
2. Seats were even faster

I hope regulations will be changed, but it's politics...