Round 1: 2015 Australian Grand Prix (Grand Prix Weekend Thread)

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by GT6

Whatever the reason for the failure is unimportant the failure still happened

it is very important: you anly can use 4 engines in a year, but as many spark plugs you want.

the engine was not damaged further because it was shut down quickly, so a new spark plug should fix it.

[sparkione]

What is so wrong with F1 that someone like Honda comes to a race after at least a year of engine development and looks like a bunch of kindergartens!

It defies belief. F1 is the 'pinnacle' (please excuse the cliché) of motor racing and it behoves those who aspire to compete in it to do so with equipment worthy not just of the discipline itself, but also of their own achievements and reputations.

So, Ron, onwards and upwards?

[wolfhound]

I wonder where the Manor's will be in relation to the McLaren's when the former gets going?

[ger80]

The testing ban didn't help Honda and I don't think it helps F1 in general

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by ger80

The testing ban didn't help Honda and I don't think it helps F1 in general

Agreed.

[Trev Campbell]

Originally Posted by steve_r

I agree with everything you say. It is up to Renault and Ferrari to up their game, not for a successful team to be handicapped. By the same logic should Renault, Ferrari and Mercedes all be pegged back to the dire level of performance that the Honda is currently demonstrating?

I have to say that when I read the headline, I agreed. But when you read what Horner said, it's not without precedence. During the Red Bull reign, rules were changed to try to bring them back to the field. Blown diffusers, exhaust locations, off throttle engine mapping, bendy wings, were all banned

So you've got to say that he may have a point. The Merc dominance looks like eclipsing anything Red Bull did.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Trev Campbell

I have to say that when I read the headline, I agreed. But when you read what Horner said, it's not without precedence. During the Red Bull reign, rules were changed to try to bring them back to the field. Blown diffusers, exhaust locations, off throttle engine mapping, bendy wings, were all banned

So you've got to say that he may have a point. The Merc dominance looks like eclipsing anything Red Bull did.

These were applied to all teams, not just Red Bull, and furthermore, a lot of it was due to the fact that Red Bull in particular were "bending" the rules, for example the "bendy" wings on the Red Bulls were only believed to be be as mandated, yet when filmed by other car's on board cameras, they were found to be flexing. To put it as politely as I can, they were cheating. There is still, today, scepticism along the pit lane about the legality of their blown diffusers, and also their engine mapping.

The same may have applied to other teams. But as far as I am aware, no other team made public statements that the FIA should take action to peg back Red Bull, per se. They may have said that they should all, including themselves, agree to stop particular practices, but none of them said the Red Bull cars should be handicapped so that they could catch up.

[wolfhound]

I see where Red Bull are starting to throw all the toys out of the pram. They say they are going to pull out unless the rules are changed, seemingly they don't like engines!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118081

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by ger80

The testing ban didn't help Honda and I don't think it helps F1 in general

See that's the bit I dont get... put the engine in the back of one of their HPD sports cars and drive teh wheels off it for days on end on circuits across the world. Once it actually runs for more than 10 laps at a time without blowing up, transfer it into a McLaren.

Surely its not that hard to achieve on-track testing..

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

See that's the bit I dont get... put the engine in the back of one of their HPD sports cars and drive teh wheels off it for days on end on circuits across the world. Once it actually runs for more than 10 laps at a time without blowing up, transfer it into a McLaren.

Surely its not that hard to achieve on-track testing..

I seem to remember Ferrari running a test hack based on one of their road cars a little over a year ago, it was reputed to have turbo V6 in the back.

If Honda don't have one of their own cars that is suitable McLaren also build racing sports cars, Iam sure they could modify one of those if necessary.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

I see where Red Bull are starting to throw all the toys out of the pram. They say they are going to pull out unless the rules are changed, seemingly they don't like engines!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118081

At the end of the article it says, ''The Austrian firm has a contract with the sport's bosses that commits it to the world championship until at least 2020''. I suppose they could leave before then and face a law suit but between now and then, the sale of a few more cans of Red Bull would cover that.

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

At the end of the article it says, ''The Austrian firm has a contract with the sport's bosses that commits it to the world championship until at least 2020''. I suppose they could leave before then and face a law suit but between now and then, the sale of a few more cans of Red Bull would cover that.

Don't forget they are also good mates with Bernie so I am sure they will get something sorted to the satisfacion of two teams and everybody else will be left fighting among themselves.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

See that's the bit I dont get... put the engine in the back of one of their HPD sports cars and drive teh wheels off it for days on end on circuits across the world. Once it actually runs for more than 10 laps at a time without blowing up, transfer it into a McLaren.

Surely its not that hard to achieve on-track testing..

It's tempting to think along those lines, but I believe that you will find that it is the "packaging" of the power-units that seems to be one of the major problems that the teams are encountering. On a sports car, there is a lot more space in and around the PSU environment, plus they have additional space at the front and the sides in which to place parts that feed the PSU.

This is a luxury that doesn't exist on a modern single seater, although the radiators are in the the side but they are probably still smaller than on the average sports car. And to return to earlier comments made on this or another thread, nowadays it would seem evident that no matter how many hours the engineers run the PSUs in test beds, they can never replicate the reality of running them in the actual chassis on a real track.

This truly shows how brilliant the engineers at Mercedes/Ilmor were/are as it would seem as though they were the only ones that produced a power-unit that worked pretty well as it was designed to do right from the get-go at the beginning of testing last year. I believe also that there are rumours along the pit lane that Mercedes are not even running their PSUs at their maximum potential, as so far no one else is really able to challenge them.

[chavez]

Originally Posted by sparkione

What is so wrong with F1 that someone like Honda comes to a race after at least a year of engine development and looks like a bunch of kindergartens!

It defies belief. F1 is the 'pinnacle' (please excuse the cliché) of motor racing and it behoves those who aspire to compete in it to do so with equipment worthy not just of the discipline itself, but also of their own achievements and reputations.

So, Ron, onwards and upwards?

Honda took a while the second time around. (This being the third time).

Anyone remember the Honda powered Spirit?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chavez

Honda took a while the second time around. (This being the third time).

Anyone remember the Honda powered Spirit?

Yes, it made it's debut at Brands Hatch in the 1983 Race of Champions, with Stefan Johansson driving. I was at the race.

[Paradise City]

Well, Honda is an advanced company of the 21st century not too long after its last stint in the big league. I expected them to do better than stone blasted last, new regs or not. Dennis was blathering about wins at one point last year.

Kodus to Ferrari and this new guy though. I expected chaos but whatever magic beans that have been planted behind the scenes, they've certainly hit a sweet spot on track.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

I see where Red Bull are starting to throw all the toys out of the pram. They say they are going to pull out unless the rules are changed, seemingly they don't like engines!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118081

I hope they do so and very publicly. If they throw a big enough tantrum it might sort out a lot of problems and they are the one team that could do that. They do not have to answer to external sponsors and they can take four cars and a huge amount of expertise and infrastructure with them. Either way the situation would then be at a point where a complete re-structure could be feasible. I sincerely hope that RB are serious but I doubt it.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

At the end of the article it says, ''The Austrian firm has a contract with the sport's bosses that commits it to the world championship until at least 2020''. I suppose they could leave before then and face a law suit but between now and then, the sale of a few more cans of Red Bull would cover that.

We are at the moment watching another case where contracts mean very little and I think RB are a big enough to take on F1 with little or no concern. Just think of all the dirty little secrets and deals that might emerge, we could be here for years discussing it all.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

It's tempting to think along those lines, but I believe that you will find that it is the "packaging" of the power-units that seems to be one of the major problems that the teams are encountering. On a sports car, there is a lot more space in and around the PSU environment, plus they have additional space at the front and the sides in which to place parts that feed the PSU.

This is a luxury that doesn't exist on a modern single seater, although the radiators are in the the side but they are probably still smaller than on the average sports car. And to return to earlier comments made on this or another thread, nowadays it would seem evident that no matter how many hours the engineers run the PSUs in test beds, they can never replicate the reality of running them in the actual chassis on a real track.

This truly shows how brilliant the engineers at Mercedes/Ilmor were/are as it would seem as though they were the only ones that produced a power-unit that worked pretty well as it was designed to do right from the get-go at the beginning of testing last year. I believe also that there are rumours along the pit lane that Mercedes are not even running their PSUs at their maximum potential, as so far no one else is really able to challenge them.

Should I cancel my order for a Civic Type R on the strength (or lack thereof) of this weekend from Honda?

The Honda's longest stint this year was Mr Button's race distance, and that thing fell off the pace with 20 laps to go.. Not too flash

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Should I cancel my order for a Civic Type R on the strength (or lack thereof) of this weekend from Honda?

The Honda's longest stint this year was Mr Button's race distance, and that thing fell off the pace with 20 laps to go.. Not too flash

I thought that was partly down to the tyres going off.

[Casper]

RB have no choice or rather they are between a rock and a hard place. There is no source of motors except MB and that is not going to happen for numerous reasons so they have to stick to what they have OR pull the pin and walk away.

It actually shows why the era of Cosworth was a such a good thing, the manufacturer did not compete and the engine supply was (supposedly) without bias to any team using the motor. MB are clearly not doing that with their customer teams and who could blame them.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Should I cancel my order for a Civic Type R on the strength (or lack thereof) of this weekend from Honda? (

You'll get a good deal as they will only sell about two of them in Oz, just like the last model, I think they sold about five of them.

[johnh875]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

It's tempting to think along those lines, but I believe that you will find that it is the "packaging" of the power-units that seems to be one of the major problems that the teams are encountering. On a sports car, there is a lot more space in and around the PSU environment, plus they have additional space at the front and the sides in which to place parts that feed the PSU.

This is a luxury that doesn't exist on a modern single seater, although the radiators are in the the side but they are probably still smaller than on the average sports car. And to return to earlier comments made on this or another thread, nowadays it would seem evident that no matter how many hours the engineers run the PSUs in test beds, they can never replicate the reality of running them in the actual chassis on a real track.

They could easily replicate the F1 engine bay inside the sports car.

There was quite a lot happening this weekend, but it does not bode well for the season. Hopefully the interesting races coincide with the FTA ones!

[wnut]

Originally Posted by johnh875

They could easily replicate the F1 engine bay inside the sports car.

There was quite a lot happening this weekend, but it does not bode well for the season. Hopefully the interesting races coincide with the FTA ones!

You would have thought so, but now they pretty well can't change anything so why bother until the regs change in 2017.

Hambo should be 4 time WDC by then, yay!

[Oldtony]

In summary the AGP put on show the structural, management, ethical and rule problems that the present FOM & HIA administration have foisted on F1.
Firstly the diversion of so much of the income to the "dead hands" of FOM, CVC and Bernie means those at the level of producing the show, the teams and organisers, are budget limited. Hence Arnie becomes more interesting to many than the racing.
The division of what trickles down by way of payment to teams diminishes the field. No Caterham at the meeting, no Marussia on the track and Sauber in a desperate pay driver bind in an effort to survive.
The Sauber saga demonstrates that "contract law" and "ethics" are words that should no longer appear in the same sentence as "Formula One".
The stupidity of the so called cost saving measures limiting testing and upgrading was put on show by the McLaren-Honda farce and the lack of progress by the other teams in closing the gap to Mercedes. Heaven save us from standardisation or parity rules, but freezing things for a season is not the "pinnacle of motor sport".
Finally the post race name calling by team principals is sort of like a bunch of steroid hooked cage fighters hurling insults at each other while the organiser walks away with the bulk of the purse.
Competitive instinct is fine. Stupidity in not cooperating for the common good never got anyone anywhere in the long haul.