DTM 2023

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Typically, if GT4 teams get to choose they prefer the single class format. And by giving GT4 its own TV broadcast for this year, ADAC has pretty much removed the only carrot they could have used to attract GT4s to a mixed-grid GT-Masters.

I guess they could try to push some teams from GT4 into GT-Masters by limiting which driver pairing can race in the former (e.g. no Silver-Silver-pairings), but stuff like that needs to be communicated well in advance and not after teams have already paid their entry fees.

This is all certainly thinking for 2024 or later at this point.. For 2023 I think we will either see an abandoned GT Masters series, or one with low teens car counts

But what do I know

[Bcarr6]

Luca Engstler confirmed and also confirmed thats the only car for the team.

The grid is almost there, just GRT and second Project 1 car to confirm

DTM 2023 - 26 Cars

ABT Sportsline - Audi R8 LMS GT3 - Kelvin van der Linde
ABT Sportsline - Audi R8 LMS GT3 - Ricardo Feller
Emil Frey Racing - Ferrari 296 GT3 - Jack Aitken
Emil Frey Racing - Ferrari 296 GT3 - Thierry Vermeulen
Grasser Racing Team - Lamborghini Huracan GT3 - ?Clemens Schmid?
Grasser Racing Team - Lamborghini Huracan GT3 - ?Rolf Ineichen?
Haupt Racing Team - Mercedes AMG GT3 - Luca Stolz
Haupt Racing Team - Mercedes AMG GT3 - Arjun Maini
KUS Team 75 Bernhard - Porsche 911 GT3 R - Laurens Heinrich
KUS Team 75 Bernhard - Porsche 911 GT3 R - Ayhancan Guven
Manthey EMA Racing - Porsche 911 GT3 R - Dennis Olsen
Manthey EMA Racing - Porsche 911 GT3 R - Thomas Preining
Project 1 - BMW M4 GT3 - Marco Wittmann
Project 1 - BMW M4 GT3 - TBC
SSR Performance - Lamborghini Huracan GT3 - Alessio Deledda
SSR Performance - Lamborghini Huracan GT3 - Franck Perera
SSR Performance - Lamborghini Huracan GT3 - Mirko Bortolotti
Team Engstler - Audi R8 LMS GT3 - Luca Engstler
Team Landgraf - Mercedes AMG GT3 - Jusuf Owega
Team Landgraf - Mercedes AMG GT3 - Maro Engel
Team Schubert - BMW M4 GT3 - Sheldon van der Linde
Team Schubert - BMW M4 GT3 - Rene Rast
Toksport WRT - Porsche 911 GT3 R - Christian Engelhart
Toksport WRT - Porsche 911 GT3 R - Tim Heinemann
Winward Racing - Mercedes AMG GT3 - Lucas Auer
Winward Racing - Mercedes AMG GT3 - David Schumacher

[Matt K]

Will be nice to see Luca in the DTM. A bit of shame that they won't field a second car but that was to be expected. Maybe in the future though.
Interestingly, there's a chance Attempto Racing may join the field with two Audis - Attempto did register for the DTM 2023 and named Mattia Druddi and Patrik Niederhauser as drivers but we're turned down by ADAC - allegedly due to unpaid fee. But Motorsport Total claimed the other day they might, after all, come back to the DTM this year.

[GusGasfuss]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Will be nice to see Luca in the DTM. A bit of shame that they won't field a second car but that was to be expected. Maybe in the future though.
Interestingly, there's a chance Attempto Racing may join the field with two Audis - Attempto did register for the DTM 2023 and named Mattia Druddi and Patrik Niederhauser as drivers but we're turned down by ADAC - allegedly due to unpaid fee. But Motorsport Total claimed the other day they might, after all, come back to the DTM this year.

I believe, because Audi sport can't give more to the budget, as in previous years. This might be last year of audi factory help in GT3.


I hope, they can find the missing budget or at least some guest entries will show up.
Nikki Thiim would be also nice to see...

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by GusGasfuss

I believe, because Audi sport can't give more to the budget, as in previous years. This might be last year of audi factory help in GT3.

I'm afraid this might be true even though Audi themselves claimed it's not the case.

On another note, Clemens Schmid has been confirmed in the #63 Grasser Lamborghini. The second driver hasn't been announced yet but sources say it's also going to be an Austrian driver...

[GusGasfuss]

I believe, GT Masters will get filled also more than we expect. At least there will be some DTM-Teams who might use GT-Masters as a little test beside (like confirmed by HRT, Schubert etc.)
Also there might be a chance to see some teams, that are already there because they are running GT4 cars and have an GT3 in storage. They can rent the cars to paying customers, as they are already there.


It might happen, that there are Teams runnnig cars in DTM, GT-Masters and GT4.

[Matt K]

One more team enters the DTM in the last minute - Tresor Orange1, that's a joint effort of Tresor, Orange1 and Attempto Racing. There will be two Audis, one for Mattia Drudi, the other for Patric Niederhauser. That raises the number of the cars for the DTM to 28.
We're still waiting for the second driver of Project 1 and Grasser - official pre-season tests are this weekend so assuming the last drivers will be announced this week.

[GusGasfuss]

Originally Posted by Matt K

One more team enters the DTM in the last minute - Tresor Orange1, that's a joint effort of Tresor, Orange1 and Attempto Racing. There will be two Audis, one for Mattia Drudi, the other for Patric Niederhauser. That raises the number of the cars for the DTM to 28.
We're still waiting for the second driver of Project 1 and Grasser - official pre-season tests are this weekend so assuming the last drivers will be announced this week.

Today, Grasser announced Mick Wishofer as their second driver. Former GT-Masters winnen with different brands, so might be a good addition. But i think, he is no lamborghini factory driver. So Grasser might be a little less loved from the factory????



I hope there will be a good second driver at project1. I am still hoping on a drive for Timo Glock (the owner of project1 is also Manager of Timo Glock).

Might be someone, who can do a lot of show or at least be entertaining). And of course good publicity.
I also would like to see Bruno Spengler, because he had huge fan base.


But believe, we will see some less talented young driver with big purse from father.... :-(

[Matt K]

I guess it'll be Dev Gore.... Anyway, I'm quite certain it'll be disappointing. I thought BMW will place 4 of its drivers in the DTM, not just 3...

[v8supes]

I was excited, i was thinking YES! Its going to start soon! but it doesnt, it starts near Christmas

[Matt K]

Interesting rumours regarding the future of the DTM. ADAC met the Super GT organisers and the topic was, allegedly, a possible cooperation (again) on common rules - and no, ADAC guys didn't meet to learn Japanese as Thomas Voss said
Dates mentioned where 2027/2028 and the idea is to create rules that would be something of a level above GT3 that could attract manufacturers who could build cars for not just single championship but at least DTM and Super GT, however, IMSA and Supercars were also mentioned.
Interestingly, during the press conference in Spielberg, Gerd Ennser said that what the DTM is now is not their end goal and they want to bring back the DTM to the state they were '10-15 years ago' ie most important championship behind Formula E. Well, they don't lack ambition, that's for sure...

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Interesting rumours regarding the future of the DTM. ADAC met the Super GT organisers and the topic was, allegedly, a possible cooperation (again) on common rules - and no, ADAC guys didn't meet to learn Japanese as Thomas Voss said
Dates mentioned where 2027/2028 and the idea is to create rules that would be something of a level above GT3 that could attract manufacturers who could build cars for not just single championship but at least DTM and Super GT, however, IMSA and Supercars were also mentioned.
Interestingly, during the press conference in Spielberg, Gerd Ennser said that what the DTM is now is not their end goal and they want to bring back the DTM to the state they were '10-15 years ago' ie most important championship behind Formula E. Well, they don't lack ambition, that's for sure...

[FIRE]

To make myself clear:
Class 2 didn't work. One of the reasons to expensive. Japanese manufacturers had no interest to race in Europe, Germans no interest to race in Japan.
Looks like the Germans didn't learn from the past.

They better can go talk with the Brazilians of Stock Car Pro series. Nice looking and powerful cars but relative low costs compared to class 2.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by FIRE

To make myself clear:
Class 2 didn't work. One of the reasons to expensive. Japanese manufacturers had no interest to race in Europe, Germans no interest to race in Japan.
Looks like the Germans didn't learn from the past.

They better can go talk with the Brazilians of Stock Car Pro series. Nice looking and powerful cars but relative low costs compared to class 2.

I think we can take that back further and look at the most recent attempt at a GT1 series based on modifying GT3 cars. adds expense that is hard to justify for teams and manufacturers who are already selling cars to customers.

With hypercar being successful currently, i think the push for an even more extreme gt class is a tough sell.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by joeb

I think we can take that back further and look at the most recent attempt at a GT1 series based on modifying GT3 cars. adds expense that is hard to justify for teams and manufacturers who are already selling cars to customers.

With hypercar being successful currently, i think the push for an even more extreme gt class is a tough sell.

True

Audi moving to F1 in a couple of years has already a negative effect on their GT3 involvement.

IMO the Germans behind DTM had and according to this interview still have a wrong mindset.

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by FIRE

To make myself clear:
Class 2 didn't work.
Looks like the Germans didn't learn from the past.

I think you mean Class 1

Also, before we start bashing DTM/ADAC about their egos it's worth keeping in mind it's the Super GT who approached ADAC now with this idea, not the other way round (well, at least if we believe in what the reports say).

I also think that DTM will not and cannot go on with GT3 cars forever and a possible tie-up with Super GT as well as possibly IMSA and/or Supercars could work out if the new rules would not try to emulate the Class 1 era. If this was much more cost-effective, more like Supercars rather than old DTM, then who knows, perhaps there would be a chance to do that. Anyway, I'm interested in what ADAC plans for the future of the DTM.

[GusGasfuss]

Originally Posted by Matt K

I think you mean Class 1

Also, before we start bashing DTM/ADAC about their egos it's worth keeping in mind it's the Super GT who approached ADAC now with this idea, not the other way round (well, at least if we believe in what the reports say).

I also think that DTM will not and cannot go on with GT3 cars forever and a possible tie-up with Super GT as well as possibly IMSA and/or Supercars could work out if the new rules would not try to emulate the Class 1 era. If this was much more cost-effective, more like Supercars rather than old DTM, then who knows, perhaps there would be a chance to do that. Anyway, I'm interested in what ADAC plans for the future of the DTM.

Exactly...it sounds more like, that japanese organisators approached DTM/ADAC (and also visited in Germany). I believe, they suffer also from the problem, that development of their top-class gets too expensive, at least for only one country/market.

Would be better, if they could sell these cars around the world (i don't see these cars/teams flying over all the time to race in germany and japan (and vice versa). Must be something, that could attract good teams of each side, to represent these manufacturers in their home series.

[Bcarr6]

I don't think many manufacturers care for spending class 1 money on something that doesnt compete in the 24hrs of Le Mans anymore..

[Matt K]

That's why hypothetical new regulations for DTM/Super GT/IMSA/Supercars (any of them) couldn't be anywhere near what Class 1 was. It could only be viable if was a lot cheaper and worked like GT3 or Supercars - so possible to handle by private teams without need for manufacturers to spend millions on developing the cars, engines and running the teams. But not sure how possible that is at all - would like to think it is, otherwise soon motorsport in Europe will be limited to TCR, GT3 and Formula 1 & E (+rallying ofc).

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Matt K

I think you mean Class 1

Also, before we start bashing DTM/ADAC about their egos it's worth keeping in mind it's the Super GT who approached ADAC now with this idea, not the other way round (well, at least if we believe in what the reports say).

I also think that DTM will not and cannot go on with GT3 cars forever and a possible tie-up with Super GT as well as possibly IMSA and/or Supercars could work out if the new rules would not try to emulate the Class 1 era. If this was much more cost-effective, more like Supercars rather than old DTM, then who knows, perhaps there would be a chance to do that. Anyway, I'm interested in what ADAC plans for the future of the DTM.

Yes Class 1
And it's indeed Masaaki Bandoh who visited Germany in February.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Bcarr6

I don't think many manufacturers care for spending class 1 money on something that doesnt compete in the 24hrs of Le Mans anymore..

And currently with LMH/LMDh I don't see that happen in the near future.

If it's something like GT3 it doesn't make sense.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by FIRE

And currently with LMH/LMDh I don't see that happen in the near future.

If it's something like GT3 it doesn't make sense.

Lets go tube frame like TransAm!

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by joeb

Lets go tube frame like TransAm!

Carbon tubes

[Bcarr6]

Do we have any idea on availability of streaming for the DTM / GT Masters this year in the UK?

[Matt K]

According to the DTM, apart from TV coverage across many countries, the races will also be streamed on YouTube. Not sure if that'll be restricted for some locations or not though.
Probably will see on Saturday!