Sportscar Racing and Global Warming

[old man]

The Sunday Times reports that Honda's new F1 car will carry no sponsors advertising but instead will promte green issues by displaying a picture of the planet and selling a pixel to groups promoting green issues. The car will not be directly involved in green technology but does this show someone else thinking that motorsport must be seen to be green?

[dj choc ice]

in the world of performance cars honda need a good kick up the arse, the new honda civic type-R is terrible to say the least.

a pixel on the car, thats tiny and besides im sick of that bloody advert on BBC, thata annoying welsh 5 year old "its our future please donnnnnnnt thrrrow it awayyyy".

christ in my house everything is recycled, paper, plastic, tins, milkbottles the lot, and according to the government we still arent doing enough!

[GTfour]

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

in the world of performance cars honda need a good kick up the arse, the new honda civic type-R is terrible to say the least.

a pixel on the car, thats tiny and besides im sick of that bloody advert on BBC, thata annoying welsh 5 year old "its our future please donnnnnnnt thrrrow it awayyyy".

christ in my house everything is recycled, paper, plastic, tins, milkbottles the lot, and according to the government we still arent doing enough!

Ofcourse you're still not "doing" enough mate! Next thing our governments want us to "do" for the planet is PAY.
And ofcourse they will be so kind for us as to do all kinds of good things for mother earth....

The only reason for the big names to enter this greeny feedingfrenzy is M.O.N.E.Y. . Following the hipe so to say.

[archibold]

The time for people to jsut sit around and pretend nothing will happen from this is over. If you believe that saying there is no point if China is still at it or that there is plenty more where that came from, motorsport hardly contribues anything, or my car is really efficient so it is ok etc, then you need to rethink the impact this will have. Matorsport is a politically easy target with limited fallout.

See:

http://sport.guardian.co.uk/formulao...024854,00.html

Including:

"There is some irony in the fact that Honda are attempting to promote the environment and calling on others to address environmental issues when they are contributing to climate change by participating in what is probably the most polluting sport on the planet," said Emily Armistead, a spokeperson for Friends of the Earth. <-- Referring to F1, not sportscars I know but not a good label to get that last bit when perception is everything in the media.

This issue is only going to continue to rise up the agenda and easy political targets e.g. motorsport will be legislated against and/or taxed unless action is taken to promote the R&D side of racing e.g. using alternate fuels, lightweight materials (surely the way forward as lighter vehicles use less fuel and surely an area that racing leads in).

The problem is motorsport has largely stopped innovating as it constantly tries to peg back speed...maybe small screaming engines with small fuel tanks and anything goes on materials/aero/mechanical grip is the way to go. To be fair the big gains have been found and clearly on a lot of things diminishing returns applies.

Not trying to be holier than though but things are going to change. Yes I do race a gt car but also care about the state of the planet afterwards...not sure how I'm going to square those two over the coming years. One may have to go...

Hopefully no one is offended by this post it's intended to spark debate (that's what we come here for!)

Archibold

[renkadima]

Originally Posted by archibold

...not sure how I'm going to square those two over the coming years. One may have to go...

If it's the Earth that's got to go, you will give us some warning first, won't you?

Good post. Illustrates nicely that some (influential) people already have the sport on their agenda.

[Spyderman]

Although I don't sit on same side of the fence as the "PC" brigade and the "tree huggers", I will agree with you that things are going to have to change(there is nothing more constant than change)
Furthermore, I also agree (generally) with your premise that motorsport has largely stopped innovating as it constantly tries to peg back speed, however, it is vitally important that that change be managed correctly. It must encourage the development of new fuels without exaggerating the point (as in the case of the pro-diesel rules)at the risk of destroying sportscar racing as we know it. As you can see from my opening statement, I'm a evolutionary and not a revolutionary. Drastic and radical changes often carries with it consequences that are sometimes unforeseeable and often malevolent.
It is also important to guarantee that motor racing remains independent (and it has lost much of that already) from politically motivated band wagons of the future.
I know that those of you that are substantially ..."greener" than I, will no doubt impress that time is of the essence, and that we need to immediately resort to soap box racing or wind power, or some other extraordinary form of energy within the next couple of weeks...at the risk of loosing the North Pole, having Le-Mans flooded, etc..., but lets all just keep an ounce of sanity between us and come up with viable solutions that will save the planet without throwing millions of people onto the unemployment line.
Just adding to the debate....Hopefully no one gets offended.

[old man]

As the person who started this thread my intention was to discuss the problem because it will not go away and the Guradian quote from archibold's post is typical of what we can expect. I earn my crust in the oil industry and know the researchers are working to prolong the use of pertocarbon fuels but if we love our sport we should, in my opnion press for changes that will demonstrate a desire to reduce polution both from what we love doing and from the use of personal transport vehicles in general.

High profile action will show we are not intent on destroying the planet, if we don't act others will impose, have no doubt.

As I said before, better to set an example than be made into one

[AU N EGL]

It seems in any Governmental or parlemtary discusions, the only concensise is with the Envornment. Right or Wrong, parties tend to agree as it gets them MORE votes, and allows elected officials to RAISE more money to get re-elected. i.e. every band wagon is poltically motivated.

I read last week that here in the USA, that ethonal production now takes 20% of the corn that is produced. The down side is the corn going to produce ethonal takes away from corn to feed live stock, thus causing food prices to go up. Producing or growning more corn may be a limited option as the fields do need to be rotated between corn, soybeans and wheat or other grass, to keep the top soil in opitmal neutritional levels for crop growth. If corn is planted in the same field year after year, the corn quality will deminish by the thrid year.

Also of interesting note in the USA there are 870,000 some gas or petrol stations and only 1000 E85 petrol stations.

In short more and more ppl are finnally starting to understand that ethonal prodution as a fuel source is not for envornmental but politcal gains.

OK may be I need go plant a 1000 acers of corn vs 1000 of new trees for a year. No wait, clearing the land for farm use would take too much. Trees it is.


The fuel suppler for the ALMS is VP Racing Fuels.
http://www.americanlemans.com/news/Article.aspx?ID=2822

The fuel will have 10% ethonal and is a highly oxyignated fuel, which should also produce more power for the cars. http://www.vpracingfuels.com/index2.html

[old man]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

I read last week that here in the USA, that ethonal production now takes 20% of the corn that is produced. The down side is the corn going to produce ethonal takes away from corn to feed live stock, thus causing food prices to go up. Producing or growning more corn may be a limited option as the fields do need to be rotated between corn, soybeans and wheat or other grass, to keep the top soil in opitmal neutritional levels for crop growth. If corn is planted in the same field year after year, the corn quality will deminish by the thrid year.

One multi national major has a process that uses a fungus that produces enzymes to react with the corn straw in the process and works better on the straw than the actual corn. This is also less fuel intensive and so is said to be carbon neutral. So corn prices are not affected, it just uses the waste product.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by old man

One multi national major has a process that uses a fungus that produces enzymes to react with the corn straw in the process and works better on the straw than the actual corn. This is also less fuel intensive and so is said to be carbon neutral. So corn prices are not affected, it just uses the waste product.

Eventually. Corn prices here are at an all time high, so food prices are going up too.

There is some company 10 miles north of where I live that our Pres. Bush visted last week that is doing the same enzyme research in using wood chips to produce alcohol. Great. now all the wood chips that went to the brick companies and OBX board manufactures will now make alcohol and building prices will go up.

We also have more home made alcohol production since the porobition in the 1930s. Which could be good, but these guys keep selling the alcohol in quart jars.

[Bob Riebe]

As the end of the world as we know it, is debated here, at a motorsports tech. site a gent posted this link, which shows what made motorsports great, and what has been eliminated from todays scene, with little to zero protest from those who "say" they are fans of automobile racing.

http://www.museumofamericanspeed.com...LLThumbs.shtml

Here is the site, and to those who say , today are the "good old days" there is a bridge in Brooklyn I can sell you.

Bob

[AU N EGL]

Yes it is extreemly sad that ppl believe Government properganda about the envoirnment.

Any time you hear a Government <koff> offical say;

" We the Government are here to help."

Run like Hell.

[dj choc ice]

i dont run like hell, i try my best to resist the urge to throw myslef off the highest building i can find.

[AU N EGL]

Well Run like Hell to do the right thing that is. Vote, change the electorat, take up arms, write,

Run like hell means MAKE NOISE TO MAKE CHANGE

[GTfour]

This All Gore hypocrit for instance,uses many,many times more energy than most average men.
He also cancelled a meeting with a scandinavian scientist who had a bit to many "nasty" questions for him...

Here in Holland,cars take 12% of all CO2 production for their account.
Yet the other 88% is hardly discussed! Only "those damn cars" are being targeted. Everybody has one,so there's a lot of money to be taken there...

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by GTfour

This All Gore hypocrit for instance,uses many,many times more energy than most average men.
He also cancelled a meeting with a scandinavian scientist who had a bit to many "nasty" questions for him...

No one walks into an ambush that is foolish to expect someone to do so.

Here in Holland, cars take 12% of all CO2 production for their account.
Yet the other 88% is hardly discussed! Only "those damn cars" are being targeted. Everybody has one,so there's a lot of money to be taken there...

and what is the CO production of the new cleaner diesels vs the petrol powered automobies?? or the CO production of cars 10 years and older ??

[Spyderman]

Don't get me wrong AU N GEL, I hear you! But if Al Gore is so convinced of what he is preaching, surely some "uncomfortable" questions should not be a problem.
After all we are not talking about a novice! He was the VP!

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Don't get me wrong AU N GEL, I hear you! But if Al Gore is so convinced of what he is preaching, surely some "uncomfortable" questions should not be a problem.
After all we are not talking about a novice! He was the VP!

Uncormfortable questions or not, one still does not walk into an ambush.

Just like the UN envorinmental conference meeting in Paris a month or so ago. DID the UN allow the moderates on envorintment, or the those with information contary to popular believe to speak?? absolulty not, the UN only allowed the envorinrmantial extreemests to present information.

The Moderates did not want to go anyway, as they would have been ambushed as well. Just like the old Kayoto agreements, not a fair agreement to all nations so the several countries would not sign it.

The envoinrmental issues are hot topics, no dought.

Here is a novel idea, Each country take care of its own envornmantal issues. Large or small, take care of your own country first and dont worry about OTHER contries, untill your country is taken care of.

Oh by the way, I manange over 2500 acers of forrest and plant and harverst more trees every 12 years then most ppl see in a life time. So I do my share too and Yes I love motorsports. Even my dog picks up stray cans on the side of the road when we take walks.

[Spyderman]

Keep your hat on man! I'm with you all the way!

I just think that these people (Al Gore and Co) like to come across as "so committed" to the cause, but when confronted with sane people asking rational questions, they shy away! Big commitment!

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Keep your hat on man! I'm with you all the way!

I just think that these people (Al Gore and Co) like to come across as "so committed" to the cause, but when confronted with sane people asking rational questions, they shy away! Big commitment!

Absolutly Spyder. and then when asking the envoinrmental extreemeist, they are the same why just on the oppoiste end of the spectrum.

[davemk7]

there's an advert here in the uk that says something like "if we could see the causes of global warming, we'd all do something about it. We have the technology to make a difference" (and then a bit more i can't remember)

firstly it all footage of cars and planes which is wrong. Last week a report came out stating that cows produce 20 times more damaging emissions??

second "we have the technology" if anybody (ie government) cared about global warming the subsidies for green technologies would be enormous and yet arn't.

Sadly none of this is signicant to the extreemists who see motorsport as an easy target.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by davemk7

firstly it all footage of cars and planes which is wrong. Last week a report came out stating that cows produce 20 times more damaging emissions??

Not to mention all the politians with all the hot air and nasty gasses they exspell.

[renkadima]

Well, having just watched the most extraordinarily persuasive documentary on C4 about global warming, I must confess to being in a state of total bemusement! Having fully bought into the "it's all mankind's fault" argument, along comes a group of specialists in the various fields of climate study to say that that is a load of old ******, and that solar activity and clouds that are driving the change.

Having no personal way of testing either theory, I can at least book my next holiday to Florida and look forward to the coming season with a (temporarily, at least) clearer conscience.

Btw, if you do get a chance to see it, please make the effort. The last twenty minutes alone are particularly thought-provoking.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by renkadima

Well, having just watched the most extraordinarily persuasive documentary on C4 about global warming, I must confess to being in a state of total bemusement! Having fully bought into the "it's all mankind's fault" argument, along comes a group of specialists in the various fields of climate study to say that that is a load of old ******, and that solar activity and clouds that are driving the change.

In short NO ONE REALLY KNOWS, NOT EVEN EXPERTS ON EITHER SIDE.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

In short NO ONE REALLY KNOWS, NOT EVEN EXPERTS ON EITHER SIDE.

Here is a bit off topic one, especially for those who like diesels: I read a recent railroad magazine, which had an article on how they are overcoming particulates in the exhaust. To make it short, it goes through a chemical process and is then reheated at a very high temp.
Poof, no more particulates, the only thing left is--carbon dioxide.

Algore will love that one.
Bob