2013 v8st

[Bill Brown]

Originally Posted by TV3

Southern Man, while I respect your views I need to alter your perception that Live TV has a negative effect on paying crowd numbers, If the show is good enough people will attend, it's as simple as that. It is an easy option to blame TV for falling crowds but it reality it is not the case. Look at any Premier Sport and Live TV is an integral part of the business, marketing and sponsorship package. . From a Sponsors perspective it is far more cost effective to reach an audience of 250,000 with an afternoon of Supertourers on CRC Motorsport than 15,000 at the track... the figures speak for themselves. I hope I have managed to persuade you Live TV is not all bad and that we are here to support and promote V8 Supertourers for the fans, teams & sponsors. Personally, you can't beat trackside on a good day, but if you can't be there TV is the next best thing.

Regards
Nigel Carpenter
CRC Motorsport
TV3

Nigel
Live or same day TV is great for the sponsors and for the receiver of the sponsorship package because the value of the package is far greater as is the return to the sponsor.

But for a circuit owner who is relying on gate takings it all turns to custard when the weather is a bit dodgey.

Because of our small resident population circuits like Levels need the out of town punters and they will not take the risk and travel if the weather is supect.

That is a fact because our phones run red hot with weather enquiries when it is a bad forecast or raining in Chch or Dunedin.

[Chappelli]

Originally Posted by Bill Brown

Nigel
Live or same day TV is great for the sponsors and for the receiver of the sponsorship package because the value of the package is far greater as is the return to the sponsor.

But for a circuit owner who is relying on gate takings it all turns to custard when the weather is a bit dodgey.

Because of our small resident population circuits like Levels need the out of town punters and they will not take the risk and travel if the weather is supect.

That is a fact because our phones run red hot with weather enquiries when it is a bad forecast or raining in Chch or Dunedin.

Just out of interest, what's the drop off difference between a non-televised event and a televised event when the weather is poop?

And why were Tier 1 crowds typically much larger on a Sunday (live-ish TV) than they were on the Saturday (no TV)?

[Blackpearl]

Originally Posted by Bill Brown

Nigel
Live or same day TV is great for the sponsors and for the receiver of the sponsorship package because the value of the package is far greater as is the return to the sponsor.

But for a circuit owner who is relying on gate takings it all turns to custard when the weather is a bit dodgey.

Because of our small resident population circuits like Levels need the out of town punters and they will not take the risk and travel if the weather is supect.

That is a fact because our phones run red hot with weather enquiries when it is a bad forecast or raining in Chch or Dunedin.

Oh well go back to your msnz and ask why it's a summer series when the weather is always crap, also ask them why tmc didnt pay the bills.

[socram]

Originally Posted by Chappelli

And why were Tier 1 crowds typically much larger on a Sunday (live-ish TV) than they were on the Saturday (no TV)?

Because many people are tied up with work, family and sporting commitments on a Saturday. I polled all our drivers a couple of years ago as to their preferences and the least preferred option by a country mile was one day Saturday meeting. The other options of a two day meeting or a Sunday only meeting were about equal.

Drivers with young families aren't too happy spending the whole weekend at the track - unless the family are themselves enthusiasts of course.

[FAS33]

Maybe they should shutdown all the sporting activities on that race weekend so they could more people in for saturday.

[Chappelli]

Originally Posted by socram

Because many people are tied up with work, family and sporting commitments on a Saturday. I polled all our drivers a couple of years ago as to their preferences and the least preferred option by a country mile was one day Saturday meeting. The other options of a two day meeting or a Sunday only meeting were about equal.

Drivers with young families aren't too happy spending the whole weekend at the track - unless the family are themselves enthusiasts of course.

Any chance you polled spectators about spectating?

[socram]

Originally Posted by Chappelli

Any chance you polled spectators about spectating?

I hope that is tongue in cheek! If not, then it follows that the same issues that affect drivers also normally affect spectators.

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by socram

I hope that is tongue in cheek! If not, then it follows that the same issues that affect drivers also normally affect spectators.

Socram,


With respect, the two a very different, I hear drivers views loud and clear, if the driver also happens to be the car owner, and thats rare in V8ST, then I am more interested in his and other car owners view's, than the 'nut behind the wheel'. Its because we have a strong Team/Car owners group, that we listen when they all want to cut cost's.

We also need to minimise our own cost's without sacrificing good quality, same day coverage, and the very best way to this is dont travel south of Hampton Downs. In a perfect world that's exactly what we would do, but the fact is once you have to over-night then cost's escalate rapidly.

The challenge is how to cut cost, and maximise the spectator experience, and thats what we are most interested in. It will be very interesting to learn how the paying spectators like's our "big day" out experience, with all V8ST racing including qualifying, on the Sunday only.

We will give all the paying spectators a simple form, with 3 or 4 simple yes/no questions, and a tangible incentive to tick the boxes etc, so hopefully, following Hampton Downs on the 17th February next, we will have a better idea what the spectator thinks.


Mark Petch.
V8 Supertourers.

[promax]

Originally Posted by FAS33

Maybe they should shutdown all the sporting activities on that race weekend so they could more people in for saturday.

what? no rugby or league? i don't think the series is that popular

[Chappelli]

Originally Posted by socram

I hope that is tongue in cheek! If not, then it follows that the same issues that affect drivers also normally affect spectators.

And there's your answer as to why Tier 1 has died a slow and painful death....

Those keen enough to shell out tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of dollars to participate in a sport are worlds apart from your average joe who's tossing up where they'll spend their entertainment dollar....

So while competitors might find a Sunday at the track (and I'd imagine, having Saturday for prep is a large part of that equation), the boffins that are successful in drawing crowds beyond friends and family, all prefer to hold their events on a Saturday (Speedway, Cricket, Rugby, Concerts etc etc)....

Asking the drivers what the crowd wants is akin to asking the crowd for feedback on a cars setup.

[Chappelli]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Socram,


With respect, the two a very different, I hear drivers views loud and clear, if the driver also happens to be the car owner, and thats rare in V8ST, then I am more interested in his and other car owners view's, than the 'nut behind the wheel'. Its because we have a strong Team/Car owners group, that we listen when they all want to cut cost's.

We also need to minimise our own cost's without sacrificing good quality, same day coverage, and the very best way to this is dont travel south of Hampton Downs. In a perfect world that's exactly what we would do, but the fact is once you have to over-night then cost's escalate rapidly.

The challenge is how to cut cost, and maximise the spectator experience, and thats what we are most interested in. It will be very interesting to learn how the paying spectators like's our "big day" out experience, with all V8ST racing including qualifying, on the Sunday only.

We will give all the paying spectators a simple form, with 3 or 4 simple yes/no questions, and a tangible incentive to tick the boxes etc, so hopefully, following Hampton Downs on the 17th February next, we will have a better idea what the spectator thinks.


Mark Petch.
V8 Supertourers.

And their's your reason why V8ST have a full field of cars and decent crowds in year one...

I was fairly cynical of the need to break away from the establishment, but the more time that passes, the more I get why it was an ugly necessity....

[Chappelli]

Originally Posted by Bill Brown

But for a circuit owner who is relying on gate takings it all turns to custard when the weather is a bit dodgey.

Because of our small resident population circuits like Levels need the out of town punters and they will not take the risk and travel if the weather is supect.

That is a fact because our phones run red hot with weather enquiries when it is a bad forecast or raining in Chch or Dunedin.

So Rd1 is a week or so away and there's no News on the Website, no schedules, driver line ups and having been suggested that I should e-mail a team directly to find out, I e-mailed, but have yet to get a reply...

The fact that spectators have to search to find out information, are left to guess or simply aren't replied to when they ask suggests that there are plenty of simple, cheap (or free) things that aren't being done that are hurting your gate take....

[JamesK]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

We also need to minimise our own cost's without sacrificing good quality, same day coverage, and the very best way to this is dont travel south of Hampton Downs. In a perfect world that's exactly what we would do, but the fact is once you have to over-night then cost's escalate rapidly.

Mark Petch.
V8 Supertourers.

Mark, so in your perfect ST world there would be a big to all supporters, sponsors and teams south of Hampton Downs.
Wow, thats got to be good news for them.

[socram]

Fair comments above, but I am dealing only at club level (owner/drivers). For many people, club drivers or spectators, it isn't a full weekend experience, it is only a one day experience. That often applies to out of towners who will happily get up before dawn, travel to the event, stay until the bitter end and then drive home again. Not for them searching out hotels/motels and the associated costs and time away.

Sadly, travelling long distances to events is no fun on NZ's roads for a variety of reasons, so the 2.5 hour trip to Taupo may be fine in ideal conditions and by car (not towing a trailer). Experience shows that those who still work for a living and can't get away from work until 4pm on a Friday and who work north of the bridge, often take 4 or 5 hours to get to Taupo, much of that is getting as far as the Bombay's.

Getting to Manfeild is impossible without taking time off work and many employers will not grant time off for anything (I know, I worked for one where you had absolutely no personal choice holidays at all).

Mark's comment I totally understand as over the years, we had to drop Manfeild, as the budget to compete at the one meeting there was equal to the budget for the rest of the season. When HD has the track extension done, then Aucklanders and those from the Waikato will have the opportunity for racing on 4 track configurations without travelling too far and with a six or seven round series, with just one Taupo round in, that is enough variety for the drivers and enough of a budget strain.

When you move up the ladder to ST or Tier one, you are committing a massive budget just make any series national and that automatically excludes most people as they just can't afford it.

Unlike the UK for example, we can't cover the vast distances required of a national Championship easily as that patch of water adds a costly dimension to the logistics for team owners as well as spectators. Our so called motorway system with a pathetic 90kmh limit for a trailer, 100kmh for a car doesn't help as that just makes a long journey even longer.

Several local classic drivers will head off to do the Southern Festival of speed for example (there were 15 there when I visited Invercargill!) but whilst they are down there, local grids are 15 cars lighter in a short race season and apart from a couple of regulars, the southern drivers rarely venture north - and who can blame them when they have so many good tracks of their own?

We have to be careful in not getting too tied up in anything purporting to be a National Championship just for the sake of it. A South island or North island championship is fine by me if it means decent grids.

For spectators, there are so many leisure options these days and you only have to look at Ardmore or early Pukekohe crowds to see what it was like 50 years ago. Sorry to say, I think those days are well gone and we have to get used to a lower expectation of crowd numbers - unless there is something pretty special to attract the casual spectators, many of whom seem far more interested in clouds of acrid rubber smoke, than cars.

Move away from the major population areas and it is even tougher to get decent crowds.

[Goat Boy]

Also, with Puke, HD and Taupo you are putting racing within a 3-4 hour drive of almost everyone in the NI, which means 75% of the population.

[Crikey]

Originally Posted by Bill Brown

Nigel
Live or same day TV is great for the sponsors and for the receiver of the sponsorship package because the value of the package is far greater as is the return to the sponsor.

But for a circuit owner who is relying on gate takings it all turns to custard when the weather is a bit dodgey.

Because of our small resident population circuits like Levels need the out of town punters and they will not take the risk and travel if the weather is supect.

That is a fact because our phones run red hot with weather enquiries when it is a bad forecast or raining in Chch or Dunedin.

Bill, can I ask if you've considered how your spectators (and competitors) fare during a day of dodgy weather at Levels? And whether or not their experiences over a rough weekend in the past effect their choice of how far to travel and how they'd like to spend their weekend?

If I was to put myself in the shoes of a spectator during the last couple of tier one rounds, a long drive from Christchurch or Dunedin on a ****ty day, arriving before racing starts to see there's no way of parking up on the embankment (so therefore you have no chance of sheltering from the weather other than a trip to the club rooms to watch on TV or to sit in your car with nothing to see), with no grandstands there's nowhere to sit that isn't wet underfoot, and with most viewpoints only able to see part of the track, it makes the tele a pretty tempting option I reckon.

Your track is fantastic when the weather is good, and has had some awesome crowds at tier one events in years gone by. But IMHO has limited appeal when the weather 'turns to custard' other than to diehard fans. It would be great to see some more comforts turned on for the crowd - is anything in the pipeline??

[promax]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Also, with Puke, HD and Taupo you are putting racing within a 3-4 hour drive of almost everyone in the NI, which means 75% of the population.

factor in travel costs, food and accommodation for a family for the weekend on top tickets.. and you'll end up with empty grandstand

[Bill Brown]

Originally Posted by Crikey

Bill, can I ask if you've considered how your spectators (and competitors) fare during a day of dodgy weather at Levels? And whether or not their experiences over a rough weekend in the past effect their choice of how far to travel and how they'd like to spend their weekend?

If I was to put myself in the shoes of a spectator during the last couple of tier one rounds, a long drive from Christchurch or Dunedin on a ****ty day, arriving before racing starts to see there's no way of parking up on the embankment (so therefore you have no chance of sheltering from the weather other than a trip to the club rooms to watch on TV or to sit in your car with nothing to see), with no grandstands there's nowhere to sit that isn't wet underfoot, and with most viewpoints only able to see part of the track, it makes the tele a pretty tempting option I reckon.

Your track is fantastic when the weather is good, and has had some awesome crowds at tier one events in years gone by. But IMHO has limited appeal when the weather 'turns to custard' other than to diehard fans. It would be great to see some more comforts turned on for the crowd - is anything in the pipeline??

Yes we do consider both spectators and competitors alike and although it is difficult in adverse conditions we have made improvements to both pit areas and spectator banks in the last few years. We have widened the embankments to allow more spectators to see and have also added a new spectator area at McKissock Curve in the top corner. We do not allow cars on the bank as we do not have the luxury of unlimited embankments as Ruapuna does. We do have curtiansiders and corporate areas if you are in the know.

Our main priority in the last few years of course has been the resealing of the track we cannot really move on to other projects until it is finished.

Hopefully not to far in the future you will see some new projects starting.

That is of course assuming that the squabbling within the sport stops and we get back to what we are all about and thats "Motorsport".

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by promax

factor in travel costs, food and accommodation for a family for the weekend on top tickets.. and you'll end up with empty grandstand

TBH I generally am only able to attend one day per weekend usually due to Saturday sport commitments, much like the rest of NZ. So I'd normally do the Sunday, which is why the ST idea is probably a good one. I'd do a day trip to Taupo easily though so no accommodation costs. BYO picnic if you're that worried about food costs

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by promax

what? no rugby or league? i don't think the series is that popular

I didnt think league was that big in unzud. But rugby will always be king considering ur terrible at other sports ;-)

[promax]

Originally Posted by FAS33

I didnt think league was that big in unzud. But rugby will always be king considering ur terrible at other sports ;-)

speak of other sports.. your cricket team is starting to play a lot like our cricket

what's up with that

[Old_Bob]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Also, with Puke, HD and Taupo you are putting racing within a 3-4 hour drive of almost everyone in the NI, which means 75% of the population.

Very Good Point GB... But has anyone done any research into Hankook, Radioworks and of course BNT sales in the South Island?
Even Ford, Holden & B.P may not come out unscathed if it's decided we are no longer important?
Pretty bold move...

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by Old_Bob

Very Good Point GB... But has anyone done any research into Hankook, Radioworks and of course BNT sales in the South Island?
Even Ford, Holden & B.P may not come out unscathed if it's decided we are no longer important?
Pretty bold move...

The South Island is important to us and we will going to the South Island at least once a season, come what may.

We just need to find the best 'accommodation' for our visit South, and we are working on that, so hopefully we can dot the i and cross the T's on that as quickly as possible.

Mark Petch.
V8 Supertourers Limited.

[Goat Boy]

I'd REALLY love to see a round at the Highlands circuit - it would be well worth a trip south for that!!

[nistfan]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

I'd REALLY love to see a round at the Highlands circuit - it would be well worth a trip south for that!!

Highlands is looking good from what I hear. Start looking at those good deals into Queenstown