Driving behaviour after the court hearing of Jerez 1997

[Yoong Montoya]

It's easy to judge MS as an 'evil murderer' on Jerez 1997 - BUT have any of you been in that same position of having a whole season of hard work resting on a split second decision with 10 laps to go? I haven't. Not yet anyway. And I might have even reacted the same way he did if I had been in his position. The pressure he was under was unreal - he was being paid millions every year and Italy always have very high expectations of Ferrari and their drivers. And no one thrives under pressure. Some people just cope with it better than others.

Just my 2 cents.

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Yoong Montoya
It's easy to judge MS as an 'evil murderer' on Jerez 1997 - BUT have any of you been in that same position of having a whole season of hard work resting on a split second decision with 10 laps to go? I haven't.

Give or take a few laps:

Fangio has been.

Ascari has.

Moss has.

Collins has.

Hawthorn has.

Brooks has.

Clark has.

Stewart has.

Reutemann has.

Lauda has.

To my knowledge not a single one of the aforementioned names took the opportunity to put their Championship rivals off the track.

Let alone did it twice.

One of them cost himself the title by going above and beyond the call of duty to ensure that he did not win the title on a technicality.

Not all of the above are as good a driver as Schumacher. But they are all, indisputably, GREATER MEN.

The pressure he was under was unreal - he was being paid millions every year...

Dear sweet God, what a **** life he must have. There's me thinking that having all the dosh he could eat would satisfy him when all along it was making him more and more ill and force him to cheat. In the meantime that ***** Mother Teresa just swanned it in Calcuttan luxury. One wonders how MS could live with himself.

[Gt_R]

Ah..intelligent comments..i guess it's really up to the critics to judge Michael as a man.

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Gt_R
I guess it's really up to the critics to judge Michael as a man.

Hey, don't ask me.

Ask Tony Brooks, a chap who's been there, done that when motor racing was getting uncomfortably close to suicide. He recommended MS read Carozzo's book on Fangio "to see how a gentleman should behave".

Or ask any of the journos - maybe the ones that applauded when MS was penalized a couple of years back for putting Trulli off. Y'know, the people who live and breathe Formula 1 for a living.

There are many things to admire about Schumi. His talent, his dedication, his hard work, his ruthlessness - to a degree. But his ethics are dragged from beneath the bottom of a barrel. How much of that is because he is a product of his time and has calculated that with a supine governing body he can get away almost with murder I don't know.

[NiceGuyEddie]

There are many things to admire about Schumi. His talent, his dedication, his hard work, his ruthlessness - to a degree. But his ethics are dragged from beneath the bottom of a barrel. How much of that is because he is a product of his time and has calculated that with a supine governing body he can get away almost with murder I don't know.

Ohw, just get off it. This isn't even funny anymore. He put a foot wrong in Jerez 1997 (not in Adelaide 1994, he did have a fair shot at closing the door on Hill's way too optimistic move (and later on Hill proved himself he is hopelessly inadequate in an ontrack duel)) in order to save the championship. Senna did the same on 1990, but Senna did it on purpose and pre-determined (as he claimed one year later).

People have mad mistakes and you certainly don't have to be Michael Schumacher to make this mistakes and to get away with it. Ralf is still moaning about JPM getting away with his action at Melbourne, to name but only one.

Schumacher getting away with murder? Get in line for your realitycheck.

[ensign14]

Originally posted by NiceGuyEddie
People have mad mistakes and you certainly don't have to be Michael Schumacher to make this mistakes and to get away with it.

Go on. Who else tried to put a rival off track to win a title? Hakkinen didn't. Irvine didn't. Raikkonen didn't. Hill didn't.

[Gt_R]

Hill won his only WDC in 96. Closest rival is JV..not a threat because JV wasn't really allowed to take it away from DH.

Raikkonen? Funny you mentioned but the opportunity wasn't even there... Kimi finished far behind MS at Indy, and in Japan, MS is stuck way back in 8th...

Hakkinen? 1998 MS/Ferrari threw it away at the start, and the car suffered a puncture halfway during a fightback up the field...no actions required from Mika's side. 1999? Mika's main rival is out of the WDC chase with an accident...next closest rival Irvine was stuck 30sec back in the last race while letting MS do the hard job.

Irvine...1999. Seesh..like i've said, on a day when his only WDC hope was within touch, he gave a pathetic performance...

Who else tried? NOBODY was even good enough to get into that position to try.

[ljakse]

Originally posted by Yoong Montoya
It's easy to judge MS as an 'evil murderer' on Jerez 1997 - BUT have any of you been in that same position of having a whole season of hard work resting on a split second decision with 10 laps to go? I haven't. Not yet anyway. And I might have even reacted the same way he did if I had been in his position. The pressure he was under was unreal - he was being paid millions every year and Italy always have very high expectations of Ferrari and their drivers. And no one thrives under pressure. Some people just cope with it better than others.

Just my 2 cents.

So, being under pressure makes it OK??????????

Originally posted by Gt_R
Who else tried? NOBODY was even good enough to get into that position to try.

So, assumption is - everybody would do the same??? .

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Gt_R
Who else tried? NOBODY was even good enough to get into that position to try.

Needn't have been in the last race, could have been at any time. But I listed a whole bunch above as well...

[Gt_R]

Quote:"So, assumption is - everybody would do the same???"

I could simply throw this back at you with "so, assumption is - nobody except Michael will do such things?"

Michael may not be a saint, but who can say other people won't do what he did in if in the same shoes?

But this topic isnt about who will who won't..it's whether FIA's actions were sufficient to stamp out bad driving...appreciated if people could stick to it than take every opportunity to make cheap shots at MS...

IMO, it won't. future generation isnt' going to race thinking about how FIA punished MS that day. do you think MS drives now thinking about how Senna was unpunished? Or how an incident 20 years ago was left alone by the authorities..

[ljakse]

Originally posted by Gt_R
But this topic isnt about who will who won't..it's whether FIA's actions were sufficient to stamp out bad driving...appreciated if people could stick to it than take every opportunity to make cheap shots at MS...

But it's OK for pepople to try explaining why he did what he did???? (check 3rd post of this thread)

This thread is based on what His Majesty did in Jerez in '97 and FIA's reaction on it, not what caused it. The rest was merely reaction to the above mentioned post.

It's nice to agree that we disagree, but to keep giving your opinion, and at the same time asking 'other side' not to...

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Gt_R
I could simply throw this back at you with "so, assumption is - nobody except Michael will do such things?"

The evidence suggests that only Schumacher (twice), Prost (uncharacteristically) and Senna (pre-meditatedly) were the only drivers who did so. The '1997' premise of the thread should be pushed back to 1989.

There have been others in other formulae; Jim Rathmann in 1955 (allegedly), I remember Eddie Irvine doing it in FFord (he was stipped of the title so he never repeated that), the Kiekhafer team took out Herb Thomas in NASCAR back in about 1954...but nothing with the same importance.

I honestly believe Schumacher would not have done what he did had there been heavier punishments involved. He is too intelligent for that.

[Shoe-maker]

With Michael having a perfect record this season, it was inevitable that somebody would dig up Jerez 1997 before too long.

[Adam43]

The point of this thread was to discuss driving behaviour after the court hearing of Jerez 1997. Now inevitably the actual incident will be mentioned, but I think this repetitive argument about TGF is getting in the way of the actual discussion point.

There was a time when every thread turned into this and it isn't surprising that this one has - after all it is discussing a particular aspect of Jerez 1997 - however I think we should stick to the point of the thread. If only to prove that we can!

Has it mae a difference, would a harsher (or just different) penalty have made any difference?

[djb]

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
Has it mae a difference, would a harsher (or just different) penalty have made any difference? [/B]

yup, I think so.

but would it have made a difference for all the future Ronco Chopomatic moves down the road? Who knows, all I can say is that after the last race, it was so "nice" to hear our dear protagonist mention in the post-race interview that he didn't chop off Trulli at the start, as it wouldn't have been "decent", or some other quaint term.....

yup, had me rolling my eyes.

[Tye]

The lost honour of Michael Schumacher

November 3rd 1997

EDIT: Please do not copy and paste entire articles because there are copyright issues. Extracts with the appropriate link or reference are better. In addition these allow the poster to highlight particular points that aid them in the discussion and the point they are trying to convey. I see there is a hint at where the article is from, but if you proide a link I'll happily insert it to this post.

The comments did nothing to restore his shattered credibilty.

The above exerpt was taken from the FIA website.

That was pure poetry!

Tye

[Patrese256]

Originally posted by NiceGuyEddie
Now, when was the last time a deliberate move could´ve cause the ´victimdriver´ injuries, severe injuries or even death? Should we go all the way back to Ronnie Peterson and Ricardo Patrese?

In the example you quote the only reason criminal charges were involved was that the accident took place in Italy. Also, there was no "deliberate move" by Patrese as was clearly proven and recognised.

The incident does show, however, that the consequences for a driver of contact 20-30 years ago were far greater than now.

[Tye]

Originally posted by Tye
The lost honour of Michael Schumacher

November 3rd 1997

EDIT: Please do not copy and paste entire articles because there are copyright issues. Extracts with the appropriate link or reference are better. In addition these allow the poster to highlight particular points that aid them in the discussion and the point they are trying to convey. I see there is a hint at where the article is from, but if you proide a link I'll happily insert it to this post.

The comments did nothing to restore his shattered credibilty.

The above exerpt was taken from the FIA website.

That was pure poetry!

Tye

I'm aware of the copyright issue Adam, however the link to the article isn't available any longer otherwise I would've done just that.

I'll PM you on the matter.

Tye