360MRC, next time (2011) - Discussion re Car Eligibility etc

[Ed Simpson]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Hi Ed, good that you have joined in- welcome to tenths and well done on getting past finish line first!

Look forward to doing battle next year Ed- I will be in a more suitable car with same tyres as everyone else!

Mike

Mike
I look forward to it too. Your Escort is rather quick and very well setup. Maybe normal tyes will slow you a bit but I'm sure your petrol intake will be the envy of most F1 teams....

The only weakness you have will be the pits stops you will take polishing the flys off that have taken the liberty of splatting themselves on your paintwork lol.

[MartinSmith]

Good morning Mr Simpson and may I also extend a hearty welcome to 10/10ths and say again congratulations on your win.

I will call you later re your idea yesterday

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by Moosehead

Is anyone else finding it strange that in this thread and the others concerning the 360 event that everyone seems to agree that Appk is not good for 'club' motorsport yet normally everyone is so biased towards it

Different protaganists, different agendas, different values.....particularly values

[John Turner]

The intention, I believe, is not to exclude Appendix K cars, but merely to ensure that the 360MRC don't go down the road of restricting entries to such cars. It would defeat the object of the club. This event has to be different and revel in that difference.

Now, talking of eligible cars, does anyone recall seeing the BMW Kumho series some years back in which, on at least one occasion no less than 3 E12 M535i's competed. Where have they gone? A couple of those on the grid would be great; not that I'm biased or anything!

In truth, if we scour some of the old championships we could come across all sorts of cars that don't get to race now, which would be suitable for this event.

[terence]

Glad your not being 'biased' John,would be nice to have them out there,only problem then would be M3s
As for the 'Cossie' situation,No Four Wheel Drive cars would sort it.



RE AppK,There are far more 'non conforming' cars out there than the cars we are targetting.


[Aren't there?]

[John Turner]

Terry, I don't think that I understand a single point that you are making in that post! They all seem completely unconnected.

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by SAMD

I asked somewhere a wee while ago about how the noise levels are measured. What I am trying to get at is, if I am running a V6 engine and I bring the exhausts out, one on each side, where does the decibel meter measure from? 1 meter behind the car? 1 meter from each exhaust? Surely if all other things are equal, in those circumstances it should give a lower reading than a straight 4?

I run dual side exits on the Camaro and they always test the one side, I doubt it makes too much difference as to get the best out the system you should be running a balance pipe which will also make it quiter and produce more power so winner alround.

So are you allowing bigger engines in i.e. yanktanks?

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by terence bower

As for the 'Cossie' situation,No Four Wheel Drive cars would sort it.

Except that the Sierra Cosworth was 2 wheel drive.....

[andy97]

Why ban 4wd? There are not that many pre 1986 4wd anyway (I assume 1986 because a new age limit seems to be still under discussion), certainly not in the racing world, & they are heavier & have more to go wrong. Let them in.

[johngee]

We're looking at the eligibilty regulations as we speak, so that we can get them published as soon as possible. People need to start preparing cars for next year's event, which will be much earlier in the year!
A first conclusion is that we're all getting far too hung up about eligibilty - it's a SIX hour endurance race - not a ten lap sprint. Consistancy and strategy will produce a good result for almost any car and to start framing regulations to exclude this or that particular make or model would be a mistake. We want an eclectic (not electric! - I'm with Jeremy Clarkson ) mix of cars to appeal to the widest possible audience and a class/age class structure to give everybody a chance of an award as well as being the overall winner. Good endurance races are nearly always the result of David and Goliath battles.
Shoot us down in flames if you want but we want to attract a capacity grid and thus a wide appeal....and remember, this race is for Clubman, not teams who can weasel their way through a complex set of regulations and spend shed loads of money buying or building 'special' cars.

[Colin McKay]

Originally Posted by andy97

Why ban 4wd? There are not that many pre 1986 4wd anyway (I assume 1986 because a new age limit seems to be still under discussion), certainly not in the racing world, & they are heavier & have more to go wrong. Let them in.

So my mate's Land Rover will be eligible as a Grand Tourer, so long as it has the safari tent on the roof rack?

[RTH]

Where do you find the full and definitive technical regulations printed for this event for 2011 ? If you are saying for saloon and GT cars what is your precise definition of a GT car as opposed to a sports car and what is the range for year of manufacture?Is there a list of eligible cars for 2011 or can anything take part ?How long will these regulations last, if someone buys and prepares a car how do they know it will not be outlawed in the next 1-5 years ?

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Ed Simpson

Mike
I look forward to it too. Your Escort is rather quick and very well setup. Maybe normal tyes will slow you a bit but I'm sure your petrol intake will be the envy of most F1 teams....

The only weakness you have will be the pits stops you will take polishing the flys off that have taken the liberty of splatting themselves on your paintwork lol.

Ed, those pesky snetterton flies seem to aim straight for me, but with enough pit crew trained to F1 standards sure we can get a polish job done after the 6 second 60 litre refuelling is complete and still be out in 2 minutes. Anyway, next year's colour will be orange- no doubt the little blighters will find that just as attractive!

The tyre situation is interesting. The car runs on Avon 'historic' crossply slicks or wets that are appropriate to the era and regs it is built to. I've not run the car on modern radial 'road' tyres but another Gp2 Escort crew have done and reckon to lose very little. Not sure that spring rates would suit though. (And they are no cheaper than Avons!)

All academic as I have no desire to run a BDG engined car for next year!

Yes Sierra Cosworths are RWD and Sapphire Cosworths RWD or 4WD, but you are getting close to the 1990s.......

[johngee]

Originally Posted by RTH

Where do you find the full and definitive technical regulations printed for this event for 2011 ? If you are saying for saloon and GT cars what is your precise definition of a GT car as opposed to a sports car and what is the range for year of manufacture?Is there a list of eligible cars for 2011 or can anything take part ?How long will these regulations last, if someone buys and prepares a car how do they know it will not be outlawed in the next 1-5 years ?

The 2011 regulations are going through our committee and will be published, on our website, by the end of next week .
I would hope that they will be robust enough to stand the test of time although even the ACO have to change their regulations at Le Mans from time to time!

A GT car has 4 seats - easy as that! ....e.g. an MGBGT is OK- an MGB Roadster is not. A Jaguar E Type 2+2 is OK - a Jaguar E Type 2 seater sports is not
It's a difficult and sometime an illogical distinction but I think, the best we can do.
There won't be a specific list of eligible cars - If it's a series production saloon or GT manufactured in the years to be specified, you'll be fine
Once the regulations are published, we'll be pleased to answer any specific questions.
Thanks for your interest and perhaps your entry?

[MartinSmith]

Just had a lovely phone conversation with Ed Simpson, he is sunning it in his boat off some spanish Island....i think he is taking winning this event very seriously!!!! lol too right an all! He is still raving about it and that is EXACTLY what we wanted. This guy didn't know ten tenths, saw this event, entered and won....great stuff....spirit of endurance an all that. He has confirmed he is in for 2011....ohhhh i just thought...he will be the "defending champion"...sounds good dont it!

[RTH]

So does that let in a late 80s Porsche 911 N/A and Turbo or a 935 because unless you set some upper power/performance limits someone will always appear to spoil it for everyone else.
A car ran this year with slick tyres wide wheel arches and a non standard Formula 2 engine will these sort of modifications be allowed ?

Will kit cars be allowed? Will there be weight limit and or capacity classes, air restrictors/pop off valves. IF you want it to be for the impecunious, which I would have though was very important, elligibility needs very careful rules.

[johngee]

Richard - Thanks for your comments. The regulations are framed to address your concerns.
We're very well aware that our target market is the clubman - we're not looking to pick up refugees from Britcar or similar.

[PenelopePitstop]

I am quite happy with the regulations as they are, so am happy if they are not changed. I would also be happy if they changed to allow a K series Metro to race, as this is the cheapest thing I can find that may last 6 hours.

[andy97]

When was the K sries engine introduced into production? I'm too lazy to google it!

[Peter Mallett]

1990

[johngee]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitstop

I would also be happy if they changed to allow a K series Metro to race, as this is the cheapest thing I can find that may last 6 hours.

If you were really Penelope Pitstop, I'm the cheapest thing you could find to last 6 hours....but as you're not...I'm not!

[midgetman]

There's an offer you can't refuse Penelope, see if you can get us some credit laps for next year while you're at it

RTH - last time I checked a 935 was a turbo. "No turbos". And on slicks. "Road tyres" (yes, Mike's car was on slicks but it was an "Invitation" class entry). Late 80s cars are post-86 so as ineligible as Penny's K-Metro. And kit cars aren't series production cars.

>>>>>>Will there be weight limit and or capacity classes, air restrictors/pop off valves. IF you want it to be for the impecunious, which I would have though was very important, elligibility needs very careful rules

Why?

It works for CSCC, it worked last weekend, there's no reason it can't work again. K.I.S.S.

[PenelopePitstop]

If you were really Penelope Pitstop, I'm the cheapest thing you could find to last 6 hours

With an offer like that I will have to use regulation H4 on next years License.

[JasperClan]

Been reading this with interest and was beginning to think it would be something to do in one of my racing Clans. I would appear to be one of the typical clubman competitors the event is aimed at. It would also be good fun proving that it is possible to get an Imp engine to last 6 hours. Whilst the Clan fits the age requirements and is generally classed as a coupe no way could you call it a four seater. Interstingly the Clan does comply with the requirements as suggested in the original post as I'm helping someone run one quite successfully in the French Maxi 1000 Series.

Hopefully you could consider Clan as being eligible and I can get started on preparing a detuned 998 to go in my original race Clan which did a stirling 19 years in the 750 MC Roadgoing Sporttcar Series.

Pete Richards

[andy97]

Weren't Clans 2+2's? Similar rear dimensions to a Sunbeam Stilletto??