Porsche 997 - Development Curve

[Mr Revhead]

Originally Posted by skycafe

Obviously it would still face the challenge of viability anyway, is it worth the expense to develop it for GT1 wins?

robert

some would say porsche is about racing.....
yes they sell road cars, they HAVE to sell race cars.
but the porsche spirit... its about sports car racing.
i get the feeling that too porsche, lmp2 wins means squat.... they want the top class....

[Spyderman]

I'm in absolute agreement.
Going for wins in GT1 is a step "backwards", as they are already going for wins in P2.
No, I think its P1 or bust!
It's a question of timing. When (if ever) will the ACO take real steps to equalizing the rules? I think that if there is a chance that this will happen, it will be only after Peugeot has gotten its win.
So, in the meanwhile what does Porsche do with the 997?
Does it carry on developing a car that in theory will have to be “dumbed down” in order to fit into the future GT2.
As the rules are not favorable to the 997 moving “up” to GT1, my gut feeling is that Porsche will stick with the 997 RSR (albeit a dumbed down version), or a 997 Cup car, depending on how much the ACO dumb down the GT2’s.

[SebringMG]

Interesting to note that Audi are not commited to a diesel engine for future years....are they expecting an ACO backlash and are allready formulating plans to swap to petrol again??

Porsche would develop a GT1 to enable them to sell cars - figure there is a worldwide market ofr 15-20 GT1 spec cars (even if half go to collectors and never race) combined with a road car build of 200 or so? Could be very profitable - may never be raced by the works squad but some of the aston/corvette privateers could swap...esp as Aston/Prodrive rumoured to be P1 bound which would slow/end development of the DBR9.

P1 is where they want to be....expect them back around 2009/2010 at the earliest...latest ACO rules make it pointless to develop a car before then as it would be a waste of money (since in 2011 it would have to be pensioned off from P1).

[Spyderman]

I agree. I think 2009 is the earliest date.
I also think they might also eventually develop a GT1 car (if the class exists by then), but only after (and if) they have successfully developed the P1 car.

[Satorian]

Originally Posted by SebringMG

Interesting to note that Audi are not commited to a diesel engine for future years....are they expecting an ACO backlash and are allready formulating plans to swap to petrol again??

The top of the line edition of their R8 road car is supposed to be a 550 bhp V10 diesel, according to rumours. I had expected them to turn this sports car diesel R8 into a diesel driven GT1 once people start getting too bored of their LMP1 dominance and seeing the R10 all the time.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Satorian

The top of the line edition of their R8 road car is supposed to be a 550 bhp V10 diesel, according to rumours. I had expected them to turn this sports car diesel R8 into a diesel driven GT1 once people start getting too bored of their LMP1 dominance and seeing the R10 all the time.

The rumours you mention, are incorrect.

The 5.0 V10 TDI of VW is too old (still pump injectors) and the new 6.0 V12 TDI of Audi (used in Q7) is too big.

If the Audi R8 gets a diesel engine, it will be a version of the 4.2 V8 TDI, supposely with 375 hp and 770 Nm. 0-100 km/h will be in ± 5.0 secs and top speed is said to be ± 285 km/h.

[Satorian]

Which are again rumours, aren't they?
I guess we'll have to see. I would prefer a proper gasoline car (and Audi GT1) though if I'm allowed to utter wishes here.

[bil588]

Another FIA GT victory for the F430 GTC (from Monza)...

[Spyderman]

Yes, and I wonder if its worth Porsche investing more time and money further developing the 997 (in ints current state) as the rules will change for 2008.

[FIRE]

Rule changes for GT2?

[gwyllion]

ACO wants to reduce cost of GT2 in 2008. However, it is not clear at all how this will be done. And it remains to be seen how this will affect FIA GT2 rules...

[SebringMG]

I personally think the ACO should keep FIA rules...teams are not gonna want to take parts off to race in various series......probably end up costing more.

Porsche will keep development of the 997 going according to FIA rules - IF ACO changes the rules they will develop an update pack.....thereby the car will be more expensive than it originally was!!!

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by SebringMG

IF ACO changes the rules they will develop an update pack.....thereby the car will be more expensive than it originally was!!!

ACO wants cheaper cars, so probably Porsche will develop an update pack for the road version GT3 RS, the GT3 Cup or the FIA GT3 car.

[bil588]

Didn't the GT3 RS recently go on sale?

Engine failure for Emmanuel Collard's # 97 Porsche at Monza:

http://translate.google.com/translat...e.php?sid=3835

[Spyderman]

Ok , so the 997 was again beaten at the 1000Km Nurburgring.
However, there may be cause for some optimism:
The fastest time form the Virgo Ferarri (winner) was 2:00.359 whilst the Felbermayer-Proton (second) 997 was 2:00.379.
The 997 made 6 stops versus 5 made by the Virgo F430 and spent an extra 1:29.00 in the pits.
The Virgo Ferrari won by 1:30.00

I'm not throwing any fireworks just yet, but at least it was not a thrashing!

[Dani Filth]

wait for LimeRock

[bil588]

Tafel Racing completes extensive testing at Road America

http://www.americanlemans.com/news/Article.aspx?ID=3334

[SebringMG]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Ok , so the 997 was again beaten at the 1000Km Nurburgring.
However, there may be cause for some optimism:
The fastest time form the Virgo Ferarri (winner) was 2:00.359 whilst the Felbermayer-Proton (second) 997 was 2:00.379.
The 997 made 6 stops versus 5 made by the Virgo F430 and spent an extra 1:29.00 in the pits.
The Virgo Ferrari won by 1:30.00

I'm not throwing any fireworks just yet, but at least it was not a thrashing!

Behind it all the fundamental problem for the Porsche cars was their worse fuel consumption - after the first stint where it built a 30 sec lead the Virgo car was running a lean map and saving fuel....the porsches did not have this luxury and had to keep pressing where possible to make up for the extra pitstop they HAD to do. The problem for Porsche is this may keep repeating itself as the car is substantially heavier than the Ferrari and will always have worse fuel consumption

[Spyderman]

Maybe, but the third placed Porsche only made 5 stops (just like the Ferrari).

[gwyllion]

It seems the disavantages of the GT1 tyre choice outweight the advantages: more weight, higher fuel consumption and more drag (with wider wheel arches).

[arakis]

Dont mean to rub salt into your wounds, but then again, I waited for ferrari to show its true potencial for a long time, the point is, Ferrari on pole at lime rock, and second and 4th first porsche rsr is 5th

dont forget that ferrari also won every fia gt race so far and with the same car at that, the af corsa wining car has 78 kilos added on, and it is still faster then the porsches, the weight diff is about 30 kilos if that at fia gt, Ferrari is simply a faster raceing car i every aspect on every track then the porsche this year, the only reason porsche won le mans was because risi ferrari that had a 2 lap advantige sliped on oil and cashed out, as for the scderia ecosse drive shift failiure, porsche had a gearbox fail (car 80) and ingnision sistem faiiure of the saikel so the durabiliti is the same. they simply had luck

[Kai]

Flying Lizards on top at Limerock!

[Kai]

Originally Posted by arakis

dont forget that ferrari also won every fia gt race so far

Technically you're right, but don't forget that the BMS Scuderia 997 won at Zhuhai on pace, only to be excluded.

Originally Posted by arakis

Ferrari is simply a faster raceing car i every aspect on every track then the porsche this year

Unless of course it's raining

[SebringMG]

Pure luck that the Porsches won at Lime Rock unfort - on pure pace again they were lacking

[Fogelhund]

Interesting that Flying Lizards Van Overbeek and Bergmeister now lead the drivers championship in GT2, and Lizards now lead the team championship as well I believe. The 997 certainly needs more improvement, but #45 is holding it's own.