Results of todays FIA meeting - Page 5

Carla O · 29 Oct 2002, 15:58 (Ref:416459)

i think the points is a good change (more points for us on the fantasy league as well) and i like the qualifying in 2 sessions, i remember the past.. (shows my age...) but It should be more than 1 lap. maybe 12 laps over the 2 days?

Red · 29 Oct 2002, 16:02 (Ref:416461)

The fantasy league (at least the version from 1010) already awarded a points for the first 10 finishers... but watch the nightmare from the Prediction competition...

Yeah, 2 quals sessions I would love to see, but I believe that they took into consideration the problem of reducing costs and 1 engine per weekend rule. :confused: Surely 2 full quals would not help...

R · 29 Oct 2002, 17:18 (Ref:416518)

Well, I think tapping in two more names per participant (if we decide on that) won't be too much of a hassle.

Bernie needs a reality check though:

Quote:

I hope that what has happened will liven things up - even though I don't believe it needs it.

Source: www.crash.net

Umm... HELLO?!?! Doesn't need livening up?! What planet are you on.

F1 definitely needs livening up, and I want to give kudos to the powers that be for at least making these changes which to me looks like they will do just that - liven things up. It will be exciting to see what effects these changes will create - but they certainly will spice things up a bit, of that I'm sure.

Carla O · 29 Oct 2002, 17:19 (Ref:416521)

that's what i meant, the predictions comp...

Liz · 29 Oct 2002, 17:23 (Ref:416526)

Put Bernoldi back on the track and let him get in front of TGF for about 15 or 20 laps.

ASCII Man · 29 Oct 2002, 17:26 (Ref:416530)

Like he did with Coulthard in Monaco 2001?

**Asp** · 29 Oct 2002, 18:06 (Ref:416565)

Back to the 107% rule, I imagine that it will stick (to eliminate Young when he's having a normal day) - but the stewards will be more gerorous to allow people to race outside the limit.

Sodemo · 29 Oct 2002, 19:02 (Ref:416601)

The changes to the tyre regs can only be a good thing, as it means that the other lower down the grid teams can get a boost. Bridgestone tyres are already virtually 'Ferrari' tyres as it is at the moment so it can only be a good thing.

CleanTone · 29 Oct 2002, 20:30 (Ref:416695)

12-9-6-5-4-3-2-1?

Shoe-maker · 29 Oct 2002, 22:48 (Ref:416821)

The team orders thing is nonsense because I think everyone on this forum can think of a million ways to switch the orders of their drivers to get the result they want without a blatant Austria 2002 switch. And the fact that 2 Minardis swithching places wouldn't be investigated or complained about if the 2 Ferraris did it. This is all about money for keeping sponsors of smaller teams happy. F1 is a licence to print money for Bernie whoever wins and however they win.

Super Tourer · 30 Oct 2002, 07:18 (Ref:417109)

I wonder if JPM could be at a 'disadvantage' with the new qualifying rules. It's fair to say that he took a fair while per race weekend to get up to final speed, scoring poles - but often being nowhere in early practice sessions.

If it's down to a one lap 'shoot out' per session how will he fare?

Red · 30 Oct 2002, 07:32 (Ref:417114)

Actually the entire system of free practice+2 quals sucks. We saw them doing 2 x 1 hour session on Friday working for the race setup and working for the qual-setup on Saturday. Now they only have 1 hour Friday practice and most probably they'll try to work for the 1 lap quall-setup both on Friday and Saturday. If that remains I expect everyone, not only 3 teams, opt for a 10 days per season tests only and 2 extra hours of testing at every GP.

PS: Does the 50 km shakedown rule stay?

**Stephen Green** · 30 Oct 2002, 08:13 (Ref:417142)

Red, quite often the teams have been at the circuit for almost a week before the race weekend and so Fridays practice sessions were often spent watching an empty track. I think this is designed to get more cars out on the track on Friday so as not to uipset the spectators. I'm not saying it's right, but I think that's the idea behind it.

Red · 30 Oct 2002, 08:22 (Ref:417152)

Not quite often Stephen, only at 4 tracks. Anyway the track condition changes at every half an hour so the test 2 weeks ago is good only for a basic idea not fine tunning the car. Anyway, that is (I mean was) not the case. They didn't get out on Friday because they had limited number of tyres, but that changed last year. They had 2 extra sets which they were almots forced to use them. I liked that idea, it was good. Actually that could be further improved, such as drop that "one car per session only" rule, allow test drivers to run as well, allow not 2 but 5 sets of tyres etc etc.

Oh yes, 1 hour of 1 car per track doesn't look like much and exciting action to me.

**Stephen Green** · 30 Oct 2002, 08:55 (Ref:417182)

Yes I agree on that!

KA · 30 Oct 2002, 13:18 (Ref:417383)

Quote:

Originally posted by Asp
Back to the 107% rule, I imagine that it will stick (to eliminate Young when he's having a normal day) - but the stewards will be more gerorous to allow people to race outside the limit.

That's pretty much what they do now anyway- if Yoong ends up outside 107% having been nowhere near beating it all day, then he's not going to get in. On the other hand, if Michael or JPM or whoever has the session from hell and barely gets a time recorded- but has been fast enough in free practice- then they'd obviously be allowed in.

Think back to Sato in Australia- a mile outside 107% on Saturday because it all went wrong, but allowed in because his Friday times showed he'd have made it comfortably in normal circumstances

Super Tourer · 30 Oct 2002, 13:55 (Ref:417445)

KA

Good point. Do we think the FIA are going to able to enforce the new rules anyway. What contingency will they have in place to stop Ferrari making sure MS hits the track at the ideal time during qualifying, whatever the rules are.

Lets say MS doesn't complete his qualifying lap due to car failure or whatever - will the FIA exclude him as being outside the 107%, make him start last or use his Friday lap time - in which case if Sat is wet and Friday was dry, MS would end up on pole on Saturday.....Have the FIA thought this through, can they implement it and will they stand up to Ferrari, who will probably have worked out all the ways around the new rules already?

Another scenario, MS doesn't set a time on Friday and therefore has to go out first on Saturday, when it's wet - no doubt Ferrari will try to delay MS's run until later when the track has dried - car problems? Will the FIA allow this?

As KA pointed out, they have rules regarding qualifying already but don't stick to them. I think the new qualifying rules have the potential to make for some interesting races - if the FIA don't get bulldozed by Ferrari.

Red · 30 Oct 2002, 14:09 (Ref:417451)

Quote:

Originally posted by Super Tourer
Will the FIA allow this?

Yeah, that's why I don't like rules that involve referees. Be it quall. order, teamorders, 2 changes of racing lines, or whatever.

PS: Interesting.. maybe not interesting, but entertaining... will be. But race? Nope. Just show.

Glen · 30 Oct 2002, 14:50 (Ref:417480)

Quote:

Originally posted by Super Tourer
What contingency will they have in place to stop Ferrari making sure MS hits the track at the ideal time during qualifying, whatever the rules are...

Lets say MS doesn't complete his qualifying lap due to car failure or whatever - will the FIA exclude him as being outside the 107%, make him start last or use his Friday lap time - in which case if Sat is wet and Friday was dry, MS would end up on pole on Saturday.....Have the FIA thought this through, can they implement it and will they stand up to Ferrari, who will probably have worked out all the ways around the new rules already?

Another scenario, MS doesn't set a time on Friday and therefore has to go out first on Saturday, when it's wet - no doubt Ferrari will try to delay MS's run until later when the track has dried - car problems? Will the FIA allow this?

I don't think you properly digestedhow the new system works... The start sequence cannot be altered at whim - the Friday orer is determined by current WDC standings (so on Friday before Melbourne Schumi goes first, followed by Rubens, JPM etc...) and the Saturday order (which is the only one which counts for grid position) is determined by Friday's results, with the best Friday time running last.

The dispensation allowed under the 107% rule simply allows any driver failing to set a time to be judged on other criteria - in Sato and Yoong's cases they looked at lap times throughout normal practice and determined that the driver was capable of the 107% time but for whatever reason unable to set it. When let in under this scenario th driver starts from the back of the grid.

So - if anyone bins it on their Saturday lap they may well be allowed to start from the back of the grid on Sunday if they have proved their ability to do the 107% time. I don't think there will be many serious arguments about Schumacher's ability to do the 107%! If anyone crashes out of their Friday lap (which isn't qualifying, just a proceedure to deterine the order in which qualifying will take place) they woud most likely just be required to go first on Saturday just as if they had set the slowest time on Friday.

Not sure about your "car problems" scenario (highly unlikely though it is) but if I were the stewards I wouldn't accept any excuse for not being ready for your slot. I'd imagine this would be treated as failing to set a time and therefore the only recourse the team would have is via the dispensation already described - so if you miss your Saturday slot, but have demonstrated an ability to get within 107%, you start from the back of the grid.

Super Tourer · 30 Oct 2002, 15:20 (Ref:417534)

Glen

My somewhat longwinded point, was really about the fact that Ferrari always have, and always will find the best way around any rule and I was musing on the way they would approach the scenario you outline.

i.e. Schumacher facing the prospect of going out first on Sat on a wet track, due to problems on Friday, and how Ferrari would try and get around this to ensure Schumacher ran later or even last.

ST

Glen · 30 Oct 2002, 17:00 (Ref:417650)

And my point was that your point was not well made. All of the ways in which you speculated that Ferrari might somehow seek and gain an advantage could not happen.

Fair enough, I am also only speculating that missing your slot on Saturday would result in qualifying last - but that would make a lot more sense than anything else I've heard.

JohnSSC · 30 Oct 2002, 17:15 (Ref:417663)

Super Tourer: "Ferrari always have and always will find the best way around any rule" - always? Wow, when they were at the bottom of the heap a few years back, how did they manage to throw that advantage away? Always means all the time without exception. So tell me, how have they gotten around the V-10 engine rule? Grooved tires? Pit lane speed limits?

Where do you guys get your information? Secret decoder rings? Bernie is going to be awfully annoyed to find out that Ferrari controls the world and not him! If Ferrari does control the world though, I was wondering if they could...

I only hope McLaren or Williams can dominate once again so I can enjoy threads about how they always have and always will find the way around any rule.

Super Tourer · 31 Oct 2002, 10:49 (Ref:418283)

I was really referring to Ferrari in its current form, under the Ross Brawn/Todt regime. If you want an example of Ross Brawn finding the best way around the rules, how about when MS won a race in the Benetton whilst sat in the pits for a penalty.....The FIA didn't have a contingency for that situation.

My point is that I think the teams will put much more thought into all the possible qualifying scenario than the FIA will, and if their is a window to exploit vaugeness in the rules to their advantage, they will. Leaving the FIA to make up the rule book on the hoof, reacting to situations as they arise.

After all wasn't the concorde agreement supposed to clearly state the position on the validity of GP entries and prize money, yet how many versions of this have we heard this year, and it still rumbles on.

**Stephen Green** · 31 Oct 2002, 11:54 (Ref:418323)

Wasn't it in a Ferrari that he won the British GP while serving a penalty?

Super Tourer · 31 Oct 2002, 12:00 (Ref:418332)

Hi Stephen

Hmmm got me thinking now, I've got a pic in my mind of him sitting in a Benetton.....

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