[WEC] The ACO's Safety Car 'Overhaul'

[joeb]

Ok, safety car procedure is awful, but we wouldn't need to be complaining about it so much if the drivers were doing their job. So many unforced errors today.

[PhilipR]

I have to admit that I thought the new SC meant you get a lap back a la IMSA so glad to see this is not happening

[chernaudi]

It doesn't automatically happen, but it can depending on how things line up.


And yes, the new procedure sucks from the stand point of the time it can take. But if you have the old three pace car deal, you can get class separation and class leaders can get gifted a third or half a lap lead. So it's like pick your poison.



And yes, Code 60 would be a good option, but as has been pointed out, it's not ideal for everything, like barrier repairs or where you need a lot of track workers on track. This has been discussed as nauseum in the IMSA threads.

[GT3_Fan]

As much as we hate these safety cars procedures. The sanctioning bodies (except for the N'ring 24) just keeps making them worse and worse. Do they get a kick out of the red tape. Does it give them some sort of sense of power? That is what I am starting to think.

[Adam43]

The procedure was taking about 20-24 minutes. Although much shorter on the first one as the race had only just started and there was less to do. The third one took a bit long as someone was a little lethargic getting round after the pass around.

The three SC to one took about 5 minutes and the rest 17-18 minutes.

For each one the majority of the time was not the procedure it was sorting out whatever the problem was.

I think it is also clear that race control prefers to solve things with slow zones and FCY rather than SC.

[pach233]

I'm with you Adam, I think the procedure itself wasn't a major issue. The interminable amount of time prior to beginning the procedure during the 2nd and 3rd SCs was however. The 2nd SC it really seemed they didn't want to go green under the conditions. At the very minimum, I would expect some communication to the millions watching (and with 300K at the track alone, I expect the number was in the millions) as to why it's been over an hour under SC without a clear reason.

[Adam43]

That’s why I looked at it to separate the consideration of the procedure to what is potentially just inherent SC.

Although I would have stuck to what we had previously. However that wouldn’t have saved the majority of the time. Maybe 45 minutes in total. Which isn’t to be sniffed at.

[Gerard C]

From Bourdais' point of view, he finds the SC procedure acceptable but blames many drivers too slow during the merge procedures.He says that it little bit more hurry could have save at least two laps of race. Of course (following his accident at the Dunlop chicane) he regrets the way some slow zones were handled, alternance and cancellation when cars are still in the SZ, pointing that many times a yellow flag would have been enough.

[Mike E]

Bourdais and Kobayashi raise concerns about slow zones

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...d-big-rethink/

[Irie]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

And yes, the new procedure sucks from the stand point of the time it can take. But if you have the old three pace car deal, you can get class separation and class leaders can get gifted a third or half a lap lead. So it's like pick your poison.

I rather someone is gifted a third of a lap then almost a whole lap which can happen if everyone ends up behind the same SC

[PhilipR]

Did the new SC basically save the 51 race?

They were in the gravel and lost almost a lap and then the SC brought them back in contention? I fell asleep around then but remember it happening like this

[chernaudi]

I think the Ferrari lost a lot less than a lap, since they got that car out of the gravel insanely quick compared to some other incidents. However, the pace car situation "saved" them.


It also "saved" Toyota when they lost a ton of track position for guessing wrong on the tires/when to pit during one of the rain storms.

[Steve McQ]

Yes, when you see the graph posted by Adam43 in the race thread, SC periods have largely favored Toyota (and all Ferrari followers). Any green flag period saw the gaps growing once the Ferrari was unleashed at the front of the field.

My opinion is that if you fear the standard 3 SC procedure will behead some battles, you should simply allow some cars to overtake the SC they are following to reach the next one up the circuit once the hazard is cleared. With all the data now available (GPS, live timing and scoring etc), race direction should know almost instantaneously who got seriously trapped and will lose more than 25 or 30 seconds in an ongoing class battle. Once the field is settled down, just tell over the radio "Car n°X can now overtake Safety Car Y" and... that's it. Let's go racing !

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by Steve McQ

Let's go racing !

Or more likely show must go on.

[The Fat Clerk]

To be honest the new Safety Car rule ruined the whole event for me, I watched all the practice/qualifying that Eurosport showed, but come the race, once the drone show finished and we were into yet another Safety Car period I gave up.
Probably physically been there between 30 & 35 times but next year if the rules stay the same I wont even watch it on TV, to me it was farce.
Credit to Ferrari though.

[Gerard C]

@ Fat Clerk: another thing has been pointed by some drivers, about the warning panels being too bright in the night. May be Koba: “In the night it’s very hard to see the light, because it’s so bright. It’s hard to judge if it’s a next slow or slow zone." It's something we had at Magny-Cours moons ago. Your opinion?

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...d-big-rethink/

[The Fat Clerk]

True, we have had a similar issue here in the UK, not at night but @ Donington in the day, I had drivers complaining they couldn't work out if it was a white or yellow.

[RL17]

One around midnight went on for ages.

2024 - 2SCs and 2 classes - why not just split field and have a SC for each class once incident cleared (and3rd SC off) then get any car on lead lap to move right and let drop others back or get others to move and drop back.

Pass around by would be quicker as just half a lap (and all same class passing around at same time) and cars not on lead lap would probably have gained anyway by bunching up even if not given a pass around. Also avoids cars at back have much warmer tyres at restart.

[KlBD]

I wonder if you could achieve a balance of the old and new SC procedures by retaining the step where SC B & C withdraw, their respective trains catch up to the SC A train, and then they do the class drop backs to re-order the train by class for the start without the pass around.

Also, the incidents for Bourdais and Kobayashi had me thinking maybe the boundaries for slow zones 2 and 3 could be improved to avoid this type of rear end crash, especially considering the starting line for zone 3 is currently right at Tetre Rouge. Maybe they could move the start line for zone 2 back, so you shorten zone 1 and zone 2 begins at pit out, and accordingly move the start line for zone 3 to the exit of the Forest S so that cars receive the 'Next Slow' flag before they brake for the Forest S, and they proceed at slow zone speed through the S and Tetre Rouge.

[Matador]

How many laps did it take to get the formation right? This could probably be sorted in a lap or two's time by sending the classes through the pit lane rather than having them pass around and catch up. I don't think lapped cars should be allowed to unlap themselves (my opinion).

[Adam43]

Your opinion matches the rules Relative to the class leader no one gets to unlap themselves:

https://tentenths.com/forum/showthre...51#post4160151

The rules: https://assets.lemans.org/explorer/p...ons.pdf#page86

[Steve McQ]

Regarding the slow zones stuff, one solution could be to favour double yellows to start with. Now Race Control has enough data to penalize HEAVILY drivers not slowing enough under caution, double yellows should be enough to secure an incident place. Race marshalls can also signal cars with dangerous behaviour in a danger zone.
If a longer intervention is needed (barrier repair, several cars to sweep etc...), make the transition to a slow zone after 3 or 4 minutes of double yellow so that everybody is already aware of the incident's place. And when the cleaning-up is almost ready, bring a double yellow for 1 or 2 minutes before going back to green. Transitions between "full race" pace and "slow zone" pace are too brutal when you have 62 fast cars filling the track.

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by Steve McQ

Regarding the slow zones stuff, one solution could be to favour double yellows to start with. Now Race Control has enough data to penalize HEAVILY drivers not slowing enough under caution, double yellows should be enough to secure an incident place. Race marshalls can also signal cars with dangerous behaviour in a danger zone.
If a longer intervention is needed (barrier repair, several cars to sweep etc...), make the transition to a slow zone after 3 or 4 minutes of double yellow so that everybody is already aware of the incident's place. And when the cleaning-up is almost ready, bring a double yellow for 1 or 2 minutes before going back to green. Transitions between "full race" pace and "slow zone" pace are too brutal when you have 62 fast cars filling the track.

Almost perfect. Works with 30 cars on the track too. Just have to rethink the SZ's and the way they are cleared. Clear the first one when cars are trapped is no good and clear the first one first is not good either. Troubles come when there are several SZ's and as you suggest a waved YF can help. As to penalize, everything being monitored in real time, easy job.

[Gerard C]

May be we'll see some change in one week, Le Mans Classic, those cars are prone to oil leaks and other things keeping RC and marshals busy. And sometimes very busy.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

May be we'll see some change in one week, Le Mans Classic, those cars are prone to oil leaks and other things keeping RC and marshals busy. And sometimes very busy.

Do they not already have different procedures for the classics? From what I remember of seeing a few of the classics the problems are usually easy to rectify, but that is probably due to the quality of marshals there