Ssangyong Racing Series [renamed]

[raymond]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

and will replace Matt Lockwood who struggled to find form in these challenging vehicles at Hampton Downs.

.

Challenging wasn't the words he used!
Fair to say, as you know because he told you on the day, that it just didn't excite him at all.
Also he had problems with the lack of race craft of the other drivers and the fact that you cant drive these things like a race car.

So it does fill a gap, but indicates to me that to develop driver talent and race craft, other one -make series such as 86's would be a better option...but of course it costs a lot more.

That is of course only mentioning saloons. I still think you cant go past Formula Ford as the best learning ground.

[Blackpearl]

Originally Posted by raymond

Challenging wasn't the words he used!
Fair to say, as you know because he told you on the day, that it just didn't excite him at all.
Also he had problems with the lack of race craft of the other drivers and the fact that you cant drive these things like a race car.

So it does fill a gap, but indicates to me that to develop driver talent and race craft, other one -make series such as 86's would be a better option...but of course it costs a lot more.

That is of course only mentioning saloons. I still think you cant go past Formula Ford as the best learning ground.

After talking to him he said it was interesting and wouldn't do it again

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by Blackpearl

After talking to him he said it was interesting and wouldn't do it again

Lets set the record straight here, I rate Matt as a very good driver, however, Matt didn't adapt to having to carry as much corner speed as possible in these underpowered vehicles and as a direct result of that he got beaten fair and square, in a race he should have won.

If Matt had done better I am sure he would have had his hand up to continue, but understandably when you get your 'arse kicked' and its costing you personally its not something you want to risk your reputation in again.

It will be really interesting to see how Ben Dallas adapt's at Pukekohe, because some of the front runners have got some real talent and any body new that gets in and beats them will be a seriously talented driver who can drive or ride anything on wheels as quick if not quicker than anybody else, and we have already witnessed that when SVG jumped in a ute at Hampton Downs and within a a scant few laps went faster than any body else had at that point in time.

Shane has already said that he is keen to race a SRS ute "just for fun" [at one round] when ever we can make it happen and thats the difference between somebody that can drive the wheels of anything and everything, they are special people, few and far between. The only other driver that I have come across that had SVG ability was the late great Ashley Stichbury, may he Rest In Peace.

[Blackpearl]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Lets set the record straight here, I rate Matt as a very good driver, however, Matt didn't adapt to having to carry as much corner speed as possible in these underpowered vehicles and as a direct result of that he got beaten fair and square, in a race he should have won.

If Matt had done better I am sure he would have had his hand up to continue, but understandably when you get your 'arse kicked' and its costing you personally its not something you want to risk your reputation in again.

It will be really interesting to see how Ben Dallas adapt's at Pukekohe, because some of the front runners have got some real talent and any body new that gets in and beats them will be a seriously talented driver who can drive or ride anything on wheels as quick if not quicker than anybody else, and we have already witnessed that when SVG jumped in a ute at Hampton Downs and within a a scant few laps went faster than any body else had at that point in time.

Shane has already said that he is keen to race a SRS ute "just for fun" [at one round] when ever we can make it happen and thats the difference between somebody that can drive the wheels of anything and everything, they are special people, few and far between. The only other driver that I have come across that had SVG ability was the late great Ashley Stichbury, may he Rest In Peace.

Hey mark, check the rear brake load leveling valve and pressure to the rear brakes, it's going on and facts are not a lot of enforcement of rules if any.

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by Blackpearl

Hey mark, check the rear brake load leveling valve and pressure to the rear brakes, it's going on and facts are not a lot of enforcement of rules if any.

We are aware of fiddling in this area and despite your assertions that there is little to no enforcement of rules, I beg to differ. I suggest you talk to your source of information come Saturday night at Puke, our doubt you will hear the same accusation.

I might also mention Gene Rollinson jumped into a brand new ute with zero miles at Taupo as a last minute replacement for the no show Korean Journo, and apart from Gene doing his own tyre pressures, he had no other input into the utes preperation and put it on pole, and then ran away with the race. ZERO FIDDLING ON THAT VEHICLE, AND THATS A FACT.

[raymond]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

If Matt had done better I am sure he would have had his hand up to continue, but understandably when you get your 'arse kicked' and its costing you personally its not something you want to risk your reputation in again.



.

Doubt it. It was always just gonna be a one off, and I'll tell you why.
Because it is not where he wants to be racing. He has had his fill of utes doing stock car racing...he wants to be in a field with drivers that respect each other instead of driving into each other!

He knows plenty about carrying corner speed and such, but yes you are right; he struggled with a vehicle that frankly is not meant to be a race car!
He was offered a ST drive, but turned it down (you know which one) because he knew it was money that was ill-invested to get no result.

Don't be too precious about your series, it is serving a purpose and providing some entertainment to some, but it's not what every driver wants to do.



In the end,

[CDM]

Originally Posted by Blackpearl

Hey mark, check the rear brake load leveling valve and pressure to the rear brakes, it's going on and facts are not a lot of enforcement of rules if any.

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

We are aware of fiddling in this area and despite your assertions that there is little to no enforcement of rules

Gene Rollinson blah blah blah... ZERO FIDDLING ON THAT VEHICLE, AND THATS A FACT.

So its confirmed that after only 2 rounds there has already been fiddling & cheats in this SARS series.

IMO the one & only attraction to this class was the fact they were 100% the same as each other, so it was 100% the driver who won or lost, but it already appears this has gone out the window.

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by CDM

So its confirmed that after only 2 rounds there has already been fiddling & cheats in this SARS series.

IMO the one & only attraction to this class was the fact they were 100% the same as each other, so it was 100% the driver who won or lost, but it already appears this has gone out the window.

CDM please don let your obvious pre-occupation with myself and anything in motor racing that I may have done or is alleged that I did.

In any motor racing category in New Zealand including the most tightly controlled Series in the country TRS there have alway's been allegations of fiddling/ cheating just ask Kenny Smith if you know him well enough.

Yes we have had to talk to two people about 'fiddling' but neither of those two individual's have won a race nor been on the podium. 9 times out of 10 talent will always win through in such a close racing environment unless their is blatant cheating and there is no blatant cheating going on because it's extremely difficult to get a mechanical performance advantage with these near stock standard road vehicles.

I accept that nothing I say will change your or any other negative opinion of the category, and as they say "You are entitled to your opinion" so lets just agree to disagree, and have a great day.

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

It will be really interesting to see how Ben Dallas adapt's at Pukekohe, because some of the front runners have got some real talent and any body new that gets in and beats them will be a seriously talented driver...

Fair comment, but remember he hasn't raced anything since the end of the 2010-2011 summer series. That makes it even more interesting.

[socram]

Interesting twist to the thread. Personally, I'd be more than happy (or at least comfortable) piloting one of these, as regardless of my talent or lack of it, I lap my bog standard, 45 year old car 7 seconds quicker.

However, put me in any wings and slicks car and I'd probably freak out. Wouldn't mind a go in a 1961/1965 BRM though...

[CDM]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

CDM please don let your obvious pre-occupation with myself and anything in motor racing that I may have done or is alleged that I did.

In any motor racing category in New Zealand including the most tightly controlled Series in the country TRS there have alway's been allegations of fiddling/ cheating just ask Kenny Smith if you know him well enough.

Yes we have had to talk to two people about 'fiddling' but neither of those two individual's have won a race nor been on the podium. 9 times out of 10 talent will always win through in such a close racing environment unless their is blatant cheating and there is no blatant cheating going on because it's extremely difficult to get a mechanical performance advantage with these near stock standard road vehicles.

I accept that nothing I say will change your or any other negative opinion of the category, and as they say "You are entitled to your opinion" so lets just agree to disagree, and have a great day.

Don't flatter yourself, I certainly dont have a "pre-occupation" with you, its purely my thoughts on this class that would be the same whether its Bernie Ecclestone, you, or my neighbour running it. I'm purely making the statement that its a shame teams have already resorted to cheating after just a couple of rounds.

I don't want to make it personal, "attack the post not the poster" & all that, and I know that we have had different opinions in the past, but that is life and to be expected when people are after different things from Motorsport.

[NZSTfan]

Just to add my two cents in here..... I am struggling to think of any motorsport class from Karting to F1 and everything in between, that does not have some people trying to cheat, whether directly or by hiding it.

Motorsport is one of the most competitive sports out there I reckon. People want to win, and some will do ANYTHING they can to make that happen.

And yes, it even happens in 2kCup....which is sad.

I am not surprised at all that a few teams have tried to find ways in which to make their Ssangyongs go that little 0.5kph faster

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by CDM

Don't flatter yourself, I certainly dont have a "pre-occupation" with you, its purely my thoughts on this class that would be the same whether its Bernie Ecclestone, you, or my neighbour running it. I'm purely making the statement that its a shame teams have already resorted to cheating after just a couple of rounds.

I don't want to make it personal, "attack the post not the poster" & all that, and I know that we have had different opinions in the past, but that is life and to be expected when people are after different things from Motorsport.

May I remind you that you are the one making unsubstantiated allegations of cheating, yet you offer no proof but continue to in effect "throw shite" hoping I guess that some of it will "stick"

[CDM]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

May I remind you that you are the one making unsubstantiated allegations of cheating, yet you offer no proof but continue to in effect "throw shite" hoping I guess that some of it will "stick"

FFS I am only going by what was publically posted in this forum about people "fiddling/cheating", which you are obviously aware has been happening or else you wouldnt have confirmed it in your earlier post below.

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

We are aware of fiddling in this area and despite your assertions that there is little to no enforcement of rules, I beg to differ. I suggest you talk to your source of information come Saturday night at Puke, our doubt you will hear the same accusation.

I might also mention Gene Rollinson jumped into a brand new ute with zero miles at Taupo as a last minute replacement for the no show Korean Journo, and apart from Gene doing his own tyre pressures, he had no other input into the utes preperation and put it on pole, and then ran away with the race. ZERO FIDDLING ON THAT VEHICLE, AND THATS A FACT.

[socram]

Originally Posted by NZSTfan

Just to add my two cents in here..... I am struggling to think of any motorsport class from Karting to F1 and everything in between, that does not have some people trying to cheat, whether directly or by hiding it.

At the risk of sounding like a stuck record, that is one of several reasons why all our points races are handicaps. Cheat in this race and your fastest lap time gets carried over either in whole or in part not only to the next race, but also the next meeting - and the next season(s)!

But it is rather like cheating at golf. Who are you really kidding? Remember that for most of us (80%+?) this is indeed still an amateur sport. For many of us, particularly at my age and those running older cars, regardless of how hard we try, we are still out there for fun.

Utes may be a stepping stone for one or two, but let's be brutally honest, the speeds aren't really high enough to satisfy those with real ambitions.

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by socram

Utes may be a stepping stone for one or two, but let's be brutally honest, the speeds aren't really high enough to satisfy those with real ambitions.

Hi Ray,

Not trying to pick an argument because we already agree that we hold different views yet we respect each others view's.

Seriously, I would suggest you wander out to Pukekohe this Sunday [its a testing day] so no cost, and just walk around talking to any of the 18 SRS drivers that have booked to test this Sunday, and ask them what their ambitions are. I think they all aspire to be driving something much faster, but few if any can afford it, so they have been forced by their own financial circumstances To "Cut their Cloth" accordingly.

I believe if you did this you might have a new appreciation for why they are all so keen on their participation in what is just about slowest race vehicles in New Zealand, I am positive that they will tell you in their own word's that they are all having serious fun trying to beat each other! Its called racing and I love it!

Ben Dallas is a classic example, I am very sure he would love to be racing a V8 Supertourers, Porsche whatever, but cant afford it, but never the less wants to keep racing, so is leasing a drive in a SRS at Pukekohe, purely and simply because he wants to keep racing what ever it is.

Go and talk to Ben and ask him yourself why he is paying to lease a drive? because thats exactly what he is doing, and I for one admire him for putting his reputation on the line, its the mark of a true competitor, and unlike some he is putting in the hard yards to get to grips with how to get the best out of these vehicles. I wish him every success.

Cheers,

Mark.

[NZSTfan]

Mark, how much to lease one of these utes for a round?
Part of me wants to give it a crack after my first foray with 2kcup.

Stu

[socram]

Fair enough Mark. Unfortunately I am filming a two legged competition Sunday!

I suppose I am not the only one who respects your views and commitment, but if drivers want to go faster and also learn a bit about car set up, then surely, with the fastest U2K cup cars 10 seconds a lap quicker and also a lot cheaper and just as much fun, they must be a viable alternative - but from the opposite end of the entry level spectrum?

[Blackpearl]

Originally Posted by raymond

Doubt it. It was always just gonna be a one off, and I'll tell you why.
Because it is not where he wants to be racing. He has had his fill of utes doing stock car racing...he wants to be in a field with drivers that respect each other instead of driving into each other!

He knows plenty about carrying corner speed and such, but yes you are right; he struggled with a vehicle that frankly is not meant to be a race car!
He was offered a ST drive, but turned it down (you know which one) because he knew it was money that was ill-invested to get no result.

Don't be too precious about your series, it is serving a purpose and providing some entertainment to some, but it's not what every driver wants to do.



In the end,

Would said team be one that has had him before and has a slow guy who thinks he is cool. If so I can't blame him.

[promax]

Originally Posted by socram

Fair enough Mark. Unfortunately I am filming a two legged competition Sunday!

I suppose I am not the only one who respects your views and commitment, but if drivers want to go faster and also learn a bit about car set up, then surely, with the fastest U2K cup cars 10 seconds a lap quicker and also a lot cheaper and just as much fun, they must be a viable alternative - but from the opposite end of the entry level spectrum?

I don't think the class is about going fast. the selling point of the class is tv exposure and the opportunity to run at a tier one event. it's not exactly the most spectator friendly class (regardless of numbers) and it doesn't make for good viewing on tv either.

is it a good way to great on tv.. yep. is it a stepping stone to F1.. probably not. each to their own though.

[Nigel TV3]

Originally Posted by promax

I don't think the class is about going fast. the selling point of the class is tv exposure and the opportunity to run at a tier one event. it's not exactly the most spectator friendly class (regardless of numbers) and it doesn't make for good viewing on tv either.

is it a good way to great on tv.. yep. is it a stepping stone to F1.. probably not. each to their own though.

Time for me to stop sitting on the fence and voice my support for the SsangYong Racing Series. In the early stages of negotiation for a TV deal between ST, SsangYong and the Network what appealed to me was the hook line "Grassroots Motorsport" the brief appealed to me, cost effective racing with large grids and parity. So well done to Rick & Deon for their investment into the category, also M Petch should be acknowledged for getting so many on the grid.. I would never have thought that 28 Utes on the grid was possible... well done Mark... I hope Rick & Deon are getting the commercial results and dividends required and it's great to see so many young drivers on the grid at a Tier 1 meeting..

[promax]

oh I'm sure Rick is doing very well out of this. I don't think that is what people were questioning though. is this a class to develop the next line of up and coming drivers? is this a class fans want to see? probably not. which is why I said..each to their own

[Nigel TV3]

Originally Posted by promax

oh I'm sure Rick is doing very well out of this. I don't think that is what people were questioning though. is this a class to develop the next line of up and coming drivers? is this a class fans want to see? probably not. which is why I said..each to their own

Fair enough Promax.. but to give you a heads up, the viewer numbers for the first two Rounds have been very good... so someone is watching them..

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by promax

is this a class to develop the next line of up and coming drivers?

Probably not, but there's plenty of other reasons for racing. Fun might even be one of them.

Originally Posted by promax

is this a class fans want to see? probably not. which is why I said..each to their own

That's an interesting question. If you ask them straight they'll probably say no, which is what you get if you mention 2CV racing or the old Beetles. However if you ask them what they thought after they'd seen it you'd get a completely different answer. Really slow cars with iffy handling but there were lots of them and the racing was superbly entertaining.

Obviously, I haven't seen the Utes, but they do seem to have that potential.

[promax]

Originally Posted by Nigel TV3

Fair enough Promax.. but to give you a heads up, the viewer numbers for the first two Rounds have been very good... so someone is watching them..

well that's a positive!