Honey, we need to talk about our boy Scuderia .. AKA KeystoneF1

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

They will have gone to the HAAS design office, a new office on the Ferrari site, or to the Ferrari 499P Le Mans project. So Ferrari did well in that sense, I think they have been able to keep their motorsport engineers on site (albeit some officially working for " HAAS " instead of Ferrari).

my question would be then how does the Ferrari F1 team benefit from this ability to move staff on to other projects?

for sure i can see how it can be beneficial in the long term...you dont lose people, help them gain more experience, and one day down the road you can bring them back to the A team when there are openings etc.

but in the short term, at least on the operational side of things they seem woefully undermanned and/or not set up to succeed?

just being able to bring people back or reshuffle staff doesn't seem like a solution to their current woes?

speculating of course.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Beau2

Another example of Michael's strong leadership & team building skills. Part of the issue with modern Ferrari is that no-one there has that level of honesty, planning or independent thought.

had he not gotten into an accident or perhaps more specifically, had Ferrari not (a tad unceremoniously imo) put him out to pasture early then they may have been able to retain exactly the right type of legend who could have re organized this team effectively.

sliding doors unfortunately.

[chillibowl]

Actually will take the unceremoniously part back…he made room for Massa which was pretty class and probably was how I thought of it back when it happened.

[coppice]

I guess it speaks volumes for Ferrari that despite beating every other team except Red Bull , the white noise suggest they were barely capable of running a race team of any sort. Sure , they made lots of mistakes - that's why we should be grateful . They gave us some entertainment, a bit of comic opera. What a contrast to the management- speak woo woo emanating from the likes of Herr Wolff , delivered in his trademark James Bond villain accent .

[crmalcolm]

Currently hearing that Italian press is reporting a split of the roles previously held by Binotto.

Eyes are on the appointment of Binotto's replacement to see what title(s) they are announced under.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by coppice

I guess it speaks volumes for Ferrari that despite beating every other team except Red Bull , the white noise suggest they were barely capable of running a race team of any sort. Sure , they made lots of mistakes - that's why we should be grateful . They gave us some entertainment, a bit of comic opera. What a contrast to the management- speak woo woo emanating from the likes of Herr Wolff , delivered in his trademark James Bond villain accent .

Making it easier for RBR is not what I would call entertainment. It could have been a better title fight if Ferrari had got their race strategy working

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Currently hearing that Italian press is reporting a split of the roles previously held by Binotto.

Eyes are on the appointment of Binotto's replacement to see what title(s) they are announced under.

given that only the top three employee remunerations are exempt from the budget cap, adding another (high paid i would assume) manager/department head to the hierarchy would surely have an effect on the remaining budget no?

from a team building point of view under the cap era, i would have thought there would be advantage in assigning more responsibilities to a capable TP not less?

sees like a counter intuitive move in my very unexpert opinion!

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

given that only the top three employee remunerations are exempt from the budget cap, adding another (high paid i would assume) manager/department head to the hierarchy would surely have an effect on the remaining budget no?

Possibly, yes. That is a very good point.

However, the roles in question are the seperation of Team Principal from Technical Director. Simone Resta is being put forward as a potential, and he currently fills that role at Haas.

For example on the grid, the following TP and TD roles are split:
Red Bull - Horner/Wache
Mercedes - Wolff/Elliott
McLaren - Seidl/Key
Alfa Romeo - Vasseur/Monchaux
AM - Krack/Fallows
Alpine - Szafnauer/Harman
AT - Tost/Egginton
Haas - Steiner/Resta

The exception seems to be Ferrari who have/had Binotto with a panel of technical directors including:
Enrico Cardile (Performance of Chassis)
Enrico Gualtieri (Power Unit)
David Sanchez (Concept of Vehicle)
Fabio Montecchi (Project of Chassis)
Enrico Racca (Head of Supply Chain & Manufacturing)

The suggestion is that Resta would become the sole Technical Director, with the reduction in status of those other roles.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

from a team building point of view under the cap era, i would have thought there would be advantage in assigning more responsibilities to a capable TP not less?

Overheard in an office somewhere in Maranello...

Ferrari Dark Lord: "Alessandro, congratulations. We are going to assign you some of Binotto's old responsibilities in addition to your current responsibilities."
Alessandro: "My lord, why do you hate me so. You have thrown me to the wolves! I will be devoured whole!"
Ferrari Dark Lord: "It's a promotion! A reward for your prior excellent service!"
Alessandro: "I assume I will be compensated for this extra work?"
Ferrari Dark Lord: "Umm, sorry. With the budget cap and all, we have already given the money to someone else"
Alessandro: "Who?"
Ferrari Dark Lord: "Me!"



Seriously, I think maybe part of the problem is that Binotto was wearing too many hats. And while they might have good succession planning inside the team and someone might step up, they will expect (and should be) compensated for a more senior role. It will be additional senior heads and it will be a bit of a ding to their budget.

Richard

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

For example on the grid, the following TP and TD roles are split:
Red Bull - Horner/Wache
Mercedes - Wolff/Elliott
McLaren - Seidl/Key
Alfa Romeo - Vasseur/Monchaux
AM - Krack/Fallows
Alpine - Szafnauer/Harman
AT - Tost/Egginton
Haas - Steiner/Resta

indeed and this is what i meant by my unexpert opinion...i did not know how the other teams were approaching this division of responsibilities.

excellent info! thank you!

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Overheard in an office somewhere in Maranello...

Ferrari Dark Lord: "Alessandro, congratulations. We are going to assign you some of Binotto's old responsibilities in addition to your current responsibilities."
Alessandro: "My lord, why do you hate me so. You have thrown me to the wolves! I will be devoured whole!"
Ferrari Dark Lord: "It's a promotion! A reward for your prior excellent service!"
Alessandro: "I assume I will be compensated for this extra work?"
Ferrari Dark Lord: "Umm, sorry. With the budget cap and all, we have already given the money to someone else"
Alessandro: "Who?"
Ferrari Dark Lord: "Me!"

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

The suggestion is that Resta would become the sole Technical Director, with the reduction in status of those other roles.

To chilibowls point. If they bring in Resta, as TD, they still have TP role to fill. And if they reduce the responsibilities of the prior panel, are they going to ask them to reduce their salary? I kind of doubt it? In the end, it would be a net add of one and I assume Binotto wasn't pulling in the equivalent of the aggregation of both a TP and TD salary?? Ferrari maybe had it cheap with Binotto as both TP and TD?

Richard

PS: Nice details in your post.

[VIVA GT]

I personally think that the reason for splitting the role between two people is that they will have two distinct job titles. One will be called team Principle, the other will be called Scape Goat. Unfortunately for whoever gets the job(s), their official title will not be revealed until the end of next season when one of them resigns or is fired...

[coppice]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Making it easier for RBR is not what I would call entertainment. It could have been a better title fight if Ferrari had got their race strategy working

Oh I dunno- it is far more fun to watch now than during the Brawn/Byrne/Schumacher steamroller years . There again , I don't lose too much sleep over who wins the championship , I just want good races . And hardly anybody cares very much about the constructors' title except the teams.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

indeed and this is what i meant by my unexpert opinion...i did not know how the other teams were approaching this division of responsibilities.

From former members of the team (particularly engineers) there are accusations that Binotto's weakness was in the technical aspects of the sport. They feel that as a TP alone he may have flourished, but having overall responsibility for TD outputs was his downfall.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

From former members of the team (particularly engineers) there are accusations that Binotto's weakness was in the technical aspects of the sport. They feel that as a TP alone he may have flourished, but having overall responsibility for TD outputs was his downfall.

i had thought he had worked his way up in the team to technical director before becoming the TP...strange (or maybe explains a lot) if they had promoted someone to TD whose weakness was on the technical side?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

i had thought he had worked his way up in the team to technical director before becoming the TP...strange (or maybe explains a lot) if they had promoted someone to TD whose weakness was on the technical side?

I think there are subtle differences. He was actually Chief Technical Officer, as opposed to Technical Director.

For some teams they are different roles. For example, James Allison is CTO at Mercedes, alongside Mike Elliott as the TD.

Honestly, I don't understand enough to know how the roles differ. Just going off what I read in Italian media about the criticism of Binotto.

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Currently hearing that Italian press is reporting a split of the roles previously held by Binotto.

Eyes are on the appointment of Binotto's replacement to see what title(s) they are announced under.

That worked so well for Alexander the Great's successors

[crmalcolm]

Sources in Italy are now reporting that Frédéric Vasseur has been seen in Maranello over recent days having bought a house there.

[crmalcolm]

Vasseur's departure from Alfa Romeo is expected to be announced in the next week.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I personally think that the reason for splitting the role between two people is that they will have two distinct job titles. One will be called team Principle, the other will be called Scape Goat. Unfortunately for whoever gets the job(s), their official title will not be revealed until the end of next season when one of them resigns or is fired...

The greatest 'Scape' of all time? Now that's a real GOAT.....

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Sources in Italy are now reporting that Frédéric Vasseur has been seen in Maranello over recent days having bought a house there.

“Bought a house”. Seems a bit rash. He seems to be a good bloke however I give him 18 months

[crmalcolm]

Maranello (Italy), December 13, 2022 – Ferrari N.V. (NYSE/EXM: RACE) (“Ferrari” or the “Company”) today announced that Fred Vasseur will join Scuderia Ferrari on 9 January as Team Principal and General Manager.

'Commenting on the appointment, Ferrari CEO Benedetto Vigna said: “We are delighted to welcome Fred Vasseur to Ferrari as our Team Principal. Throughout his career he has successfully combined his technical strengths as a trained engineer with a consistent ability to bring out the best in his drivers and teams. This approach and his leadership are what we need to push Ferrari forward with renewed energy.”'

[S griffin]

I wish Vasseur well. It's gonna be a big step up from Alfa, so we will see if he can cope with the pressure. OTOH, he's coming in as an Ferrari outsider, so will not have any Ferrari blinkers on and might have a better idea of what needs doing. After all it worked for Todt.

[Skam85]

I hope he can mirror Ferrari history.
80s, 90s - throw away championships, find new inventive ways to lose, bit of a joke.
Jean Todt and co come in, build the team around MSC, dominate.

Hopefully Fred can be Todt 2.0 - but I believe they need to build the team around Charles.