Formula E, London, real news

[2JamesR2]

Had an email from Mr Scott too pointing out that there's an NCP in Wandsworth, 3 miles away from Battersea Park that you can park at from Thursday 8pm to Sunday 8pm (for example) for £26, then catch the 44 bus between the two (takes about 45 mins, but that's London for you). Seems simple enough.

Here is said car park:
http://www.ncp.co.uk/find-a-car-park/car-parks/wandsworth-garratt-lane/

We have to sympathise with MSVR as there isn't that much room around the area to give us a parking space each, I think we're lucky to get a campsite to be honest!

[Gas bag]

I'm afraid I cannot help those that were to take caravans and motorhomes, however I was to take my car and camping gear. Now that it seems you will be able to drop our your gear and park your car outside the park at your own expense GGGGgggggrrrrrrrrr
I have found the following website for private parking nearby;

https://www.justpark.com/

I have reserved a private space in a gated and secure car park nearby which uses a fob to gain access.
From Thursday @ 17.00pm until Monday @10.00am it has cost me £37.90
(£37.90 I would rather not spend, FIA & MSVR)
I will drop my camping gear off, take the car to the car park and park it up for the weekend
My space is off Queenstown Road A3216 so is walkable back to Battersea Park.
Looking forward to meeting fellow marshals from Oulton Park and beyond.
Hope that helps someone, see you there

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by numbersix

This is London wanting to get the prestige of hosting an International event but who haven't had the gumption to organise proper facilities for all the volunteers who will make the event possible.

To be fair, the Olympics was the same. If you wanted to volunteer you had to find your own accommodation. A camp site outside the event with some sensible transport arrangements might be a good idea, but the Olympics couldn't think of it either.

However, this could have been foreseen at the time of volunteering.

Originally Posted by Gas bag

From Thursday @ 17.00pm until Monday @10.00am it has cost me £37.90te:

I guess the £40 expenses was well calculated! Leaves you enough for half a pint

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by Woolley

To be fair, the Olympics was the same. If you wanted to volunteer you had to find your own accommodation. A camp site outside the event with some sensible transport arrangements might be a good idea, but the Olympics couldn't think of it either.

They had 70000 volunteers working at the Olympics, so providing camping wouldn't have been practical. However, everything you needed at the Olympics was provided, and you didn't have to lug lots of gear there (which was handy, because you weren't allowed to take anything in anyway). Also, everyone who worked at the Olympics got discounted train tickets .... it cost me about £6 a day, round trip from Cambridge.

The only downside was it was a 3-hour trip, each-way, and I was very tired most of the time....

[Keith Lewis]

I used Just Park website as well. Got a private space less than 3/4 of a mile from the park, from Thursday pm until Sunday night, for £35. At London prices, I'll be able to buy 3/4 of a pint, with the £5 I'll have left from the £40 we're getting. :-)

[Gas bag]

[QUOTE= At London prices, I'll be able to buy 3/4 of a pint, with the £5 I'll have left from the £40 we're getting. :-)[/QUOTE]

Just need one more person for a full pint!!!

[Wet marshal]

Have just cancelled this meeting..........I wonder why?

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by Wet marshal

Have just cancelled this meeting..........I wonder why?

Where are you hearing this? There's nothing in the news or the FE twitter feed, and it's still on the website!

[Greem]

Steve, I don't think that meant "event is cancelled"; rather "just cancelled my attendance".

Not *my* attendance, obviously; I'm still going.

[Wet marshal]

Sorry for confusion.....I have cancelled my attendance.

[HERMAN T G]

hi all it been a long time since i posted on here
like a lot of you i am camping and hopeing to drive down i live in west yorkshire and dont mind picking people up on the way the more the merryer i all so have a 8 berth tent i could bring with me for us all to sleep in so no need for anybody to bring camping gear only sleeping bags and pj,s lol then the cost for travel is shared out
if there is anybody interested get in touch my name is steve parker and im a pit marshal most of you may know me some not
i can see a lot of people are a bit upset over the fact there is no cars on site i can understand this as anybody who went to Rockingham touring cars last year simler think happend the but we over come in and just got on with it
i dont see this as a problem but a challenge and looking forward to this event.
and im a yorshire man so paying over the odds for parking,hotels, food, ect never comes in to it

so come on guys we are marshals we stand out in the rain,hot weather and some crap campsite im sure we can put up with this one and find a way with what we have been given.

anyone interested im coming down thursday coming home sunday night

steve.parker

[NICK ALLISON]

Guys and Gals.Parking is always an issue in London E Prix or not .It costs me £170.00 pa to park in my street Monday to Friday and if the street is full you are on your own.
Just South of the park into Battersea street parking is payable on Friday. Saturday and Sunday are free of restriction in most streets (unless the Police put in temporary restrictions). At worst if you park in de restricted street then it may be two maybe three stops on the bus. Bus stop outside the Chelsea gate entrance to the park.

[rbs]

We have to sympathise with MSVR

Why ? We have enough permanent circuits in UK and Jonathan palmer owns lots of them! Surely that could have used something that was already in use.

[numbersix]

Why do we undervalue ourselves so much?

Yes, we’re volunteers, but not just any volunteers. We are not pickers-up of litter. Our function is more than to direct pregnant ladies to the nearest loo. We are highly qualified, highly trained essential staff. Events cannot run without us, if only on safety grounds. You cannot grab someone from the pit crew, shove a set of flags in his hand and expect him to do anything meaningful, or safe.

A Post Chief usually has at least 10 years under his or her belt, often twice that. His is an essential role necessary for quick, concise judgment calls to race control - of situations he has dealt with for many years and knows the ropes. Some of those situations are not very nice and require a cool head.

A qualified flaggie has (at least) well over one year on the job and often as much time as Post Chiefs, a job they also do when required. Their work is an art-form and absolutely 100% essential for track safety. No flaggies, no race; end of.

Of all unpaid volunteer service personnel I cannot name one, other than Lifeboatmen, who regularly put themselves at considerable personal risk during the course of their duties. Marshals get injured, sometimes fatally, helping the very people who are often the cause of those same injuries.

We pay for all of our own kit, don’t get paid at all and rarely get expenses. When we get them, they hardly cover a fraction of our fuel.

We don’t demand much. We don’t demand anything, and that’s the problem.

This event is cash rich. This is not some small club trying the make ends meet after paying 15 grand in circuit hire, with drivers who are enthusiasts and who make sacrifices. These are the clubs and people we support and give our time and expertise too - for free. And they appreciate it.

Formula e - which I like - has money coming out of its lace holes. They have plenty of sponsors and are getting more every day. 160 countries want to run the event, including Switzerland who haven’t run a race for 30 years.

We need to make the distinction between events who cannot afford to pay us and those who can - handsomely.

FE are spending more money clearing up the litter after the event, than the sum total of all marshals’ perks nationwide for 12 months and more.

They are spending more money taking care of the shrubbery in the park, and doing ecological damage assessments than is spent on us in a year.

They are paying the security firms, track equipment firms, tent and resources hire firms, the drivers, racing teams, transporter companies and MSVR. Nobody is doing it for free. Even the St John Ambulance/Red Cross personnel will end the event with all reasonable expenses and traveling expenses paid for. It won’t cost them a penny. Trust me, this event can afford it.

And the one group, other than drivers, who train for years and actually risk their well-being just so the event can run on time and in safety, get what, exactly?

They get a patch of grass they cannot access by car and are told to go and find a parking space 45 minutes bus ride away. Okay, they get sufficient funds to pay for the parking. How generous.

There are certain accepted default requirements that marshals have at all racing events. A place to put a tent or reasonable-sized caravan or motor home, and a place to park within easy proximity and with reasonable security. Add a water tap, portable loos and Bob’s your auntie. Even the poorest events fulfill these requirements.

It doesn’t even have to be on site, but if further afield, we expect transport to the event. It’s not a lot.

London is arguably one of the richest capital cities in Europe, if not the world. It could buy Monaco and give it back for free without feeling it. Monaco looks after its marshals. Why can't London?

I don’t subscribe to the ‘lack of space, sorry there’s nothing anyone can do’ excuses. Do you think they couldn’t afford to set up a temporary camp site and have all the above facilities available to 150 ( I guess) essential personnel?

Well they didn’t. We don’t demand. We undersell ourselves.

We’ve been asked to be flexible and accept abysmally sub-standard arrangements ’To help support the event’. And, as usual, we’re quietly acquiescing, doffing our caps and thanking ’tut’ Boss’ for his generosity in allowing us a piece of grass.

I’ll swear, if a major cash-rich event offered us a pigsty to stay in, someone would say thank you. Are we mad? Why are we being apologists for the very people who have the money but not the will to look after our most minimum requirements? We are not weak. We are strong. Why do we act so weakly? I don’t understand how we will ever make progress with this attitude. Next year expect £10 expenses and a pigsty. Supply and demand rules.

It is with deep regret and personal disappointment that this event has failed to provide the minimum acceptable standard of camping facility for essential personnel and I have withdrawn my application.

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by numbersix

We need to make the distinction between events who cannot afford to pay us and those who can - handsomely.

I don't want to be paid, I just want an extra 8 square yards for my car :\

[Paul Newns]

I have booked accommodation (at reasonable prices because I booked a day before the date was confirmed), which comes with reasonably priced parking. My long suffering partner is coming with me, not for the event but because she wants to visit London and catch up with her nephew. Camping was never an option!

Therefore, I will do this year's event. I'm even looking forward to doing something different, before I camp in a muddy field in Northants (another event that could and should look after us better) the following week. However, will I do it again next year? Probably not. Not because of how it will effect me but because of the general attitude to marshals. MSVR probably can't be blamed, they are in the hands of other bodies like the local council, who don't understand marshals and marshalling.

[anna_blakemore]

If they would have put the campsite 20 miles away and put on a few coaches I wouldn't have mind. A bigger field some large tents with tables chairs for having a few beers, burger van, some music etc. A little like the GP always used to be.

[Gas bag]

Originally Posted by numbersix

Why do we undervalue ourselves so much?

Yes, we’re volunteers, but not just any volunteers. We are not pickers-up of litter. Our function is more than to direct pregnant ladies to the nearest loo. We are highly qualified, highly trained essential staff. Events cannot run without us, if only on safety grounds. You cannot grab someone from the pit crew, shove a set of flags in his hand and expect him to do anything meaningful, or safe.

A Post Chief usually has at least 10 years under his or her belt, often twice that. His is an essential role necessary for quick, concise judgment calls to race control - of situations he has dealt with for many years and knows the ropes. Some of those situations are not very nice and require a cool head.

A qualified flaggie has (at least) well over one year on the job and often as much time as Post Chiefs, a job they also do when required. Their work is an art-form and absolutely 100% essential for track safety. No flaggies, no race; end of.

Of all unpaid volunteer service personnel I cannot name one, other than Lifeboatmen, who regularly put themselves at considerable personal risk during the course of their duties. Marshals get injured, sometimes fatally, helping the very people who are often the cause of those same injuries.

We pay for all of our own kit, don’t get paid at all and rarely get expenses. When we get them, they hardly cover a fraction of our fuel.

We don’t demand much. We don’t demand anything, and that’s the problem.

This event is cash rich. This is not some small club trying the make ends meet after paying 15 grand in circuit hire, with drivers who are enthusiasts and who make sacrifices. These are the clubs and people we support and give our time and expertise too - for free. And they appreciate it.

Formula e - which I like - has money coming out of its lace holes. They have plenty of sponsors and are getting more every day. 160 countries want to run the event, including Switzerland who haven’t run a race for 30 years.

We need to make the distinction between events who cannot afford to pay us and those who can - handsomely.

FE are spending more money clearing up the litter after the event, than the sum total of all marshals’ perks nationwide for 12 months and more.

They are spending more money taking care of the shrubbery in the park, and doing ecological damage assessments than is spent on us in a year.

They are paying the security firms, track equipment firms, tent and resources hire firms, the drivers, racing teams, transporter companies and MSVR. Nobody is doing it for free. Even the St John Ambulance/Red Cross personnel will end the event with all reasonable expenses and traveling expenses paid for. It won’t cost them a penny. Trust me, this event can afford it.

And the one group, other than drivers, who train for years and actually risk their well-being just so the event can run on time and in safety, get what, exactly?

They get a patch of grass they cannot access by car and are told to go and find a parking space 45 minutes bus ride away. Okay, they get sufficient funds to pay for the parking. How generous.

There are certain accepted default requirements that marshals have at all racing events. A place to put a tent or reasonable-sized caravan or motor home, and a place to park within easy proximity and with reasonable security. Add a water tap, portable loos and Bob’s your auntie. Even the poorest events fulfill these requirements.

It doesn’t even have to be on site, but if further afield, we expect transport to the event. It’s not a lot.

London is arguably one of the richest capital cities in Europe, if not the world. It could buy Monaco and give it back for free without feeling it. Monaco looks after its marshals. Why can't London?

I don’t subscribe to the ‘lack of space, sorry there’s nothing anyone can do’ excuses. Do you think they couldn’t afford to set up a temporary camp site and have all the above facilities available to 150 ( I guess) essential personnel?

Well they didn’t. We don’t demand. We undersell ourselves.

We’ve been asked to be flexible and accept abysmally sub-standard arrangements ’To help support the event’. And, as usual, we’re quietly acquiescing, doffing our caps and thanking ’tut’ Boss’ for his generosity in allowing us a piece of grass.

I’ll swear, if a major cash-rich event offered us a pigsty to stay in, someone would say thank you. Are we mad? Why are we being apologists for the very people who have the money but not the will to look after our most minimum requirements? We are not weak. We are strong. Why do we act so weakly? I don’t understand how we will ever make progress with this attitude. Next year expect £10 expenses and a pigsty. Supply and demand rules.

It is with deep regret and personal disappointment that this event has failed to provide the minimum acceptable standard of camping facility for essential personnel and I have withdrawn my application.

Couldn't have put it better myself, however I will still attend as I want to see and feel the event before I make a decision on next years event.

My biggest disappointment is the attitude of the apologists for MSVR and FIA including sadly our own national chairman.

[HERMAN T G]

i for one allway have my car with my car with my tent. rockingham last year for t c`s we was told when we arrived we would have to wait till 6 oclock to get on campsite mixed in with public and then been told to move cars to car park leaving our tent all day. to me this i not on i was the one who made sure marshals got to keep there cars on camp site.

the one thing msv has done is get us a campsite at the venue yes we have to move cars given us £40 to cover cost told us in good time so we can sort car parking out

i for one cant see a problem i have camped at a lot of track in this country and i think under ther circumstances i think its a good deal cant remember getting £40 from any other club in the uk even from bgp

[Wet marshal]

Well said Number six!

[aland]

strewth, what a lot of moaning going on here. Right, I have looked at the athletics stadium where we will be camping on streetview and it is nice and flat, we will have showers and toilets close by, there is a seated stand for shelter. The stadium looks to be a 5 minute walk from the track. Now as marshals campsites go i would say it is jolly good. comparing it to the GP where it is a field that is anything but flat and a 15 minute walk to where the buses leave from. aye it is a pain not having the car handy but for us jocks we are all on the bus anyway, costing me £30 return from glasgow and that is including a sleeper bus home on the sunday night. Yes we have to carry our kit but I have backpacking gear for marshalling anyway, victoria bus station looks like a 20 minute walk away so not bad

plus I am part of the inaugural formula E race in the UK, getting the £40 is a bonus and if we get goody bags etc then great

[deadsquirrel]

Thankyou for your post numbersix - I think if that were your hustings speech for BMMC chairman, I'd vote for you.

Chris Hobson, would you have a response to the points made, on behalf of BMMC? I think the points made have always been true, for the 20+ years I've worn orange, little has changed. I don't see BMMC challenging race organisers for better facilities, stand down time, finish times in any strong manner.

On the flip side, accepting nothing changes, I pick and choose what/where I marshal. I WANT to be at the frst Formula E event in the UK, at a 'street' circuit, enough to pay a significant amount of money for travel and hotel. The £40 is more than I was expecting, but hasn't affected my decisions. Will I do next year on the same basis? It wil depend on how much I enjoy the event and if the organisers make improvements for us.

I have an assumption on the £40, which I have no foundation for, other some slight business experience.

In financial budgets for the event (and this could be Formula E, F1, etc), we might suggest a marshal 'costs' £40 and there'll be 150 of them. So, the budget is set at £6000. The organiser might just pay that to MSVR.

Just thinking out loud - Let's go with the assumption MSVR have decided they've got enough to arrange without doing any support work for the marshals (I'd accept this as I know how much theyve got to arrange). They instead choose to pass that money to us, to do with as we choose, providing whatever services we deem to want.

On the flip side, do Silverstone at the F1 take this entre 'marshal cost', lay on camping, party, meal vouchers, etc based on their decisions, so there is no 'cash' left. It's what I'd do if I was in charge - there's a service charge to be had, and guarantee all the meal vouchers get used at their facilities.

So, as a group of marshals, could we ever take ownership of this and approach local businesses/land owners etc to say we want a patch of land for camping or parking, setting out the hours/security etc? Same for chatering coaches etc, meals? Is it a function for a marshals club?

[numbersix]

Just to make a point. My rant was not a criticism of the BMMC or MSVR.

I believe David Scott at MSVR is entirely in favour of marshals' simple requirements and with FE he has no control over their imposed limitations.

I believe the BMMC has done stalwart work for the improvement of marshals' conditions but they have no power other than to appeal and persuade from within the system as best they can. They are not a union, and have said so many times.

Whether we need/want an Association (the word union may brand me a heretic) or not, that works in the same as, for example, St John Ambulance, (or Racesafe??) in which event organisors book with one central authority who then organizes their volunteers, is a different discussion altogether, but that is not what the BMMC is, and their own powers are limited and I believe they are doing their best.

Nor is my post in any way a criticism of the absolute right of all marshals to make their own decisions per event. I have made mine. I'm gutted, but I've made it and it was my decision alone.

But if we need to improve the complete disparity between the way our generosity is sometimes abused, whilst other organizations never walk away without a profit, yet without putting pressure on the clubs that need us, we need to act as one.

[deadsquirrel]

Originally Posted by numbersix

Just to make a point. My rant was not a criticism of the BMMC or MSVR.

I applaud many of BMMCs good work (I absolutely love the repatriation insurance), but am disappointed in other areas.

I am certainly not criticising MSVR, I understand their quandries.

But I hope we can discuss the subject in objective terms.

[Mike Kelly 1]

The provisional timetable can be found at http://www.fiaformulae.com/en/calend...timetable.aspx

Looks like the same timetable for each day.

Not sure now if i'll be camping or not. If we can unload the cars within a very short distance from the camp site then I'll camp (plan A). If not then its plan B and find a hotel within reasonable travelling time of Battersea.