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5 May 2010, 01:46 (Ref:2684587) | #101 | ||
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(Yes flippant, but well - no more need be said.) |
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5 May 2010, 02:05 (Ref:2684592) | #102 | |||
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Seriously Tim, maybe its time you kept the flippant thoughts to yourself. Yet again, a thread has gone off topic, but whilst a lot of comment is relatively pertinent, I'm struggling to see how your post above will do anything except promote stupid comment. |
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Bring on the Endurance season, and some big name DNF's... (I'd love to see the V8 Chumpionship decided @ Winton, thus making the El Grande Finale the flop it deserves to be...) |
5 May 2010, 04:01 (Ref:2684612) | #103 | |||
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There is a level of safety/entertainment. One goes up, the other goes down. It'll never be 100% safe (as he mentioned earlier, the only way for that is to ban all motorsport) but where does it end? His post is just pointing out an extreme (and sadly, while cams are in charge, its quite a possibility) |
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V8Supercars - Race cars using road car headlights, for decades ;) 'You holden VT drivers better look out, because the Ford AU is coming to get you' Glenn Seton - 1999 (The original egg on face disclaimer) :roflmao: |
5 May 2010, 08:14 (Ref:2684660) | #104 | ||
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People People People,
I was there, and have been there for 11 years at various Flag points. For CAMS sactioned meetings and AASA meetings. Yes race cars do crash, yes they hit barriers and walls. Some of the posts on this topic, well lets just say " the posters need to go out side and go thru the motions of having a cigarete and and a beer. One, Kains crash, his car flipped a slid on its roof. Two years ago a V8 supercar brake's failed, the driver drove across the gravel and tuned left and came out past Flag Point 3A. He was going a tad faster than a mini. The actual fence from Kains crash actualy lifted the car and cleared the spectators who were trying to get out of their seats. Go to Youtube and slowmow the footage. If kain had been on his wheels, he would have buried it it the gravel. WHen some of the posters have completed thier degrees in Mechanical and Civil Engineering, then speek freely on Gravel traps, Tyre Barriers, and Fences. Pull google earth, do a measurement on the track, length of gravel trap, height of wall, width of moat, height of fence. then apply these measurements to the vehicle rolling across. You maybe quiet suprised. I am not a defender of Cicuit owners or promoters. SOme of the posters here should be employed by law firms, just like good old US of A. SUe everyone. I think thats about it for this topic. |
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5 May 2010, 08:54 (Ref:2684677) | #105 | ||
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I think the main issue is that the gravel /sand trap isn't slowing the cars down. If the trap worked properly, the car shouldn't have reached the fence at a speed fast enough to launch itself.
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What if there were no hypothetical questions? |
5 May 2010, 08:57 (Ref:2684678) | #106 | |
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MIRACLE - how few people got hurt by that accident.
PREDICTABLE - how those silent and ignorant before the event become vocal after it. HYPOCRITE - Dick Johnson, by his own inference took his team to a track likely to cause foreseeable injury. SUBDUED - VESA the event promoter, know this can happen again at most permanent tracks. CONUNDRUM - Do VESA, the competitors, and the fans want permanent* high catch fences combined with deeper spectator set-backs stretching around the perimeter of the traditional permanent tracks? You do all realise it is the only solution to guard spectators and track workers from accidents. * They'll need to be permanent, as this accident showed that the danger was with a slower category of vehicle, one doing speeds similar to those found at everyday ordinary clubdays. SOLUTION - get a govt loan to build the fence, amortise in ticket and track hire charges over 10 years. |
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5 May 2010, 10:11 (Ref:2684703) | #107 | ||
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V8Supercars - Race cars using road car headlights, for decades ;) 'You holden VT drivers better look out, because the Ford AU is coming to get you' Glenn Seton - 1999 (The original egg on face disclaimer) :roflmao: |
5 May 2010, 11:34 (Ref:2684749) | #108 | ||
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As STEALTHY says - just hammering home a point in relaiton to this and similar accidents. The ONLY way to stop them (and I do mean ONLY) is completely remove the cars from the spectators. No matter what you do or how hard you try to 'fix' this problem , it WILL come up again somewhere - the odds are just too great. And - off topic? I don't think so. |
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5 May 2010, 12:28 (Ref:2684773) | #109 | |||
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A better example. Ortelli's accident was most similar to this one and the fence stopped him succesfully.
Quote:
RE tyre walls, you can make them out of whatever you like, band them how you feel fit and fill them with any manner of inserts. If the car doesn't hit them then they're not going to have much effect... |
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Bill Bryson: It is no longer permitted to be stupid and slow. You must choose one or the other. |
5 May 2010, 12:32 (Ref:2684777) | #110 | |||
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V8Supercars - Race cars using road car headlights, for decades ;) 'You holden VT drivers better look out, because the Ford AU is coming to get you' Glenn Seton - 1999 (The original egg on face disclaimer) :roflmao: |
5 May 2010, 12:40 (Ref:2684784) | #111 | ||
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I once saw an Alfa saloon hit an unofficial water splash (a large dip in the outfield filled up with rainwater). I can confirm it stopped him very effectively. It also blew the gator off the gear leaver resulting in an impressive, if somewhat smelly, fountain!
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Bill Bryson: It is no longer permitted to be stupid and slow. You must choose one or the other. |
5 May 2010, 13:27 (Ref:2684804) | #112 | ||
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Cromley: "With the margin Gareth has, he doesn't need to play for sheep stations" |
5 May 2010, 13:28 (Ref:2684806) | #113 | |||
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V8Supercars - Race cars using road car headlights, for decades ;) 'You holden VT drivers better look out, because the Ford AU is coming to get you' Glenn Seton - 1999 (The original egg on face disclaimer) :roflmao: |
5 May 2010, 13:41 (Ref:2684813) | #114 | ||
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5 May 2010, 14:57 (Ref:2684839) | #115 | ||
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2007 Porsche @ Thruxton - Kelvin Burt clears the catch fence.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0n8MhZhw_sQ |
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5 May 2010, 20:09 (Ref:2685002) | #116 | ||
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I can think of two more at Donington and one at Magny Cours. In the case of those two at Donington there was a full height safety fence cleared by a Super Touring car and almost cleared by an F3000. Also an F3 driver died at Thruxton when stopped by the fencing.
All anyone can do is assess the likely risk and do what they can to reduce it, but there's no solution that will work in every case. |
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Bill Bryson: It is no longer permitted to be stupid and slow. You must choose one or the other. |
5 May 2010, 21:09 (Ref:2685035) | #117 | ||
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Speedway cars clearing fencing, deliberately deisgned to catch cars, from time to time.
But always, ever always, the most dangerous part of a motor racing meeting is when the car is on the trailer. Driving with other cars around you, dragging a huge pendulum behind your car if you have a trailer instead of a transporter, with no roll cage, no six point harness, no helmet. With other cars travelling towards and past you at a closing speed on 200 km/h with just a painted white line on sections of single carriageway. With no medical team on a 120 second standby, concrete barriers only inplace occasionally and flag and fire marshals ready to leap to your defence and no ambulances standing by to whisk you away in the case of the worst. |
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Mark Alan Jones Opinionated Human My opinions only have the power you give them |
5 May 2010, 21:50 (Ref:2685055) | #118 | ||
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Get Real! Hang on a minute - how many marshals have had their feet run over in the marshalling area in this same time? Whoops, better ban cars with tyres as well as they are dangerous to feet. How many windscreens have been broken on the race track in the same period? Better ban windscreens as well. And how many drivers have died behind the wheel of a racing car during the same period? Sorry Rachel - the whole point is that these ARE isolated incidents and they are NOT common ocurrences. The sheer number of cars racing, number of events and the HUGE number of laps completed WITHOUT incident mean that they cannot reasonably be foreseen or prevented. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, can predict what will happen in a race, how a driver will react, or what stupid decisions are made by drivers, officials or the public. Look at the British GP when some kook invaded the track years ago. Why wasn't 20 foot high fencing immediately placed around the entire track after this? </soap box off to let others think about the ridiculous nature of calling for measures to events you cannot foresee> |
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5 May 2010, 23:59 (Ref:2685086) | #119 | |
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Perhaps we might also consider how said Mini ended up on it's lid in the first place.... Lightweight FWD cars and race circuits havent had the greatest of histories, remember (was it Mason?) that barrell rolled that Suzuki Swift at the chase at Bathurst in 1995 ?
Now some brain surgeon wants to bring the swift series back... I understand that this was Magro's first national event - dare we go down the licencing standards track ? |
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6 May 2010, 00:58 (Ref:2685096) | #120 | |
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I seem to recall being at Sandown in the days of the Mazda 121 (is that the right one??) series where one of the cars (all female drivers btw) upended itself. Because of the shape of the car when it ended up on its roof it just rolled backwards and forwards on its roof. Shouldn;t laugh - but this made me think then, and again now, that some cars should NEVER be on the race track.
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6 May 2010, 03:48 (Ref:2685120) | #121 | |
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These cars are not "lightweight", in fact they are only 200kg less than a V8 Supercar, they have a much higher centre of gravity, front wheel drive, short wheelbase, sticky tyre on each corner - basic physics will tell you they prefer to roll like a tennis ball than slide to a stop.
Add an inexperienced driver or two - big TV event -disaster in waiting. The 2nd incident (throttle jam) would have been minimised if the driver had steered into the gravel trap instead of away from it completely - inexperience again. So no one told her the "gravel trap is your friend". Where do they get GC Licences these days ?. There were quite a number of contributing factors to each incident at QR T6 - if you want to get to the core of the incidents, look for the common factor in each, then you will isolate that issue that contributed to all of them. 1- same type of car 2- inexperienced drivers 3- unfamiliar car to the driver (lack of track miles) Last edited by motorfoto; 6 May 2010 at 03:59. |
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7 May 2010, 07:50 (Ref:2685822) | #122 | |
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7 May 2010, 09:46 (Ref:2685862) | #123 | |
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No idea as GC licence hasn't existed for a few years now..... But suffice to say if you don't know the licence levels, best not to comment on how someone goes about obtaining one....
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7 May 2010, 11:29 (Ref:2685904) | #124 | |
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There was an issue with the throttles sticking open in Germany see http://www.youtube.com/user/MrPorsch.../1/DoBoWEj7dq8
Lucky this car didn't go over the fence as well. |
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8 May 2010, 03:02 (Ref:2686356) | #125 | |||
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Quote:
OLT ??? |
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Bring on the Endurance season, and some big name DNF's... (I'd love to see the V8 Chumpionship decided @ Winton, thus making the El Grande Finale the flop it deserves to be...) |
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