Palmer

[BSchneiderFan]

Well, I guess we'll see what judgement Renault have reached when it's contract time.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

That seems remarkably charitable for a major car manufacturer.

it really is!

but as you said earlier, they must have seen something in him to justify keeping him on...what remains to be seen is whether or not he can hit the new targets they have set for him as a full time works driver?

shades of Mags getting bounced from Mclaren for similar reasons.

personally i think they got his money, they got a 'known' name for their relaunch, and now its looking like they have their scapegoat to the Renault board when asked what went wrong in 2016 and what improvements the team can make for 2017.

i dont know though, too many biases here for me and i must be coming across as super negative in this thread.

[BSchneiderFan]

One can overestimate the extent to which Palmer is a "name". Not sure how much resonance it has beyond Britain. I just hope Renault don't turn to the Toyota playbook and scapegoat their drivers. I don't think I'd make a change for 2017 in their position.

[ASCII Man]

I only remember Jonathan Palmer as a commentator for Eurosport in the early to mid 90's. I guess he raced for McLaren at one point?
That, or I'm confusing him with John Watson...



I have no idea who Palmer is then...

Excuse me, I'll just get my coat.

[BSchneiderFan]

Never raced for McLaren. Had a one-off with Williams but spent most of his Formula 1 career with Zakspeed and Tyrrell. Only ever winner of the Jim Clark Cup.

[Paradise City]

He was a BBC commentator, a steady replacement for Hunt a few years after his GP career ended. He may have been pit reporter before that. I thought he did test for McLaren? I know about his Williams outing. He now owns a few of tracks and his Formula Palmer Audi series gave late Justin Wilson his break.

Anyhoo, he's done well is and is affluent. I don't think he's astronomically wealthy or anything, so you won't see him getting in the habit of bankrolling f1 drivers.

But if you don't merit a spot on the grid after becoming GP2 champ, then there's a malfunction in the ladder there, isn't there?

[BSchneiderFan]

Yes, there is a problem with the ladder. Has been for a while.

[Paradise City]

I see young Palmer as a Ryan Briscoe figure. A guy who will probably get coughed out of F1 but has the stuffing to carve out a prominent career in motorsports generally. And whether GP2 aligns with F1 in any meaningful way or not; no slowcoach wins with the GP2 title and he therefore merits the backing he gets more than many drivers do.

[coppice]

Jonathan Palmer was a very handy driver-he was extremely quick in F2 and no mean pedaller in F1 - but he had the strength of character to admit he was utterly outpaced by the then meteoric Jean Alesi at Tyrrell . My best memory of him is seeing him rag the arse off a Lola T70 at Brands. He has also done a terrific job of injecting new life into Cadwell, Oulton etc

His son seems a decent lad and belongs in a GP car even though he won't trouble the top step of the podium too often . His problem is that too many people feel he is tainted because his dad is well off and well known. Odd that Moss' and Hailwood weren't stigmatised by having comfortable backgrounds ..

Maybe we should all press for more working class anti heroes like Tommy Byrne ?

[BSchneiderFan]

Lewis Hamilton's back story is impressive, with his dad working two (three?) jobs to put him through karting, though he then benefited greatly from McLaren support, of course.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

Lewis Hamilton's back story is impressive, with his dad working two (three?) jobs to put him through karting, though he then benefited greatly from McLaren support, of course.

That speaks volumes about Hamilton's father. Unfortunately, some of his humility doesn't seem to have rubbed off on his son.

[BSchneiderFan]

Fred Vasseur thinks Renault are now on the right track: http://www.autosport.com/news/report...the-right-path

And Autosport also reports that Renault are sniffing round Sergio Pérez (and his group of sponsors) despite Vijay Mallya saying he had already signed to stay at Force India.

[S griffin]

Certainly they are getting more competitve, so they're hard work is paying off. They're a serious team no doubt about it, they've just had a slow start

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

That speaks volumes about Hamilton's father. Unfortunately, some of his humility doesn't seem to have rubbed off on his son.

Are you joking?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Are you joking?

No. Why would or should I?

[peebee2]

I think you are misjudging him. Ask di Resta or other drivers he "managed"

[DDDrive]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

He was a BBC commentator, a steady replacement for Hunt a few years after his GP career ended. He may have been pit reporter before that. I thought he did test for McLaren? I know about his Williams outing. He now owns a few of tracks and his Formula Palmer Audi series gave late Justin Wilson his break.

Anyhoo, he's done well is and is affluent. I don't think he's astronomically wealthy or anything, so you won't see him getting in the habit of bankrolling f1 drivers.

But if you don't merit a spot on the grid after becoming GP2 champ, then there's a malfunction in the ladder there, isn't there?

Disappointed AUTOSPORT didn't include Dr Jonathan Palmer in last week's "50 People Who Changed Motorsport" - he has given more back to the sport and it's future stars than any other F1 driver.

As Britain's most successful circuit operator he has turned Brands, Cadwell, Oulton and Snett into thriving state of the art facilities and Bedford Autodrome introduces new people to the joys of motorsport every day.

As the creator of Formula Palmer Audi, FIA Formula 2 and BRDC Formula 4 (now British F3) JP Snr has done more than any individual or governing body to reduce the cost of credible single-seater racing.

Not sure his boy is good enough for F1 though.

[BSchneiderFan]

I think we're occasionally conflating two separate questions: one, is Jolyon Palmer good enough for Formula 1, and two, is he the right driver for Renault looking ahead to 2017 and beyond. On the first point, I think the answer is yes, as he's occasionally matching or outperforming Kevin Magnussen, who is highly rated. On the second, I'm less sure; I don't know what the Regie's options are, but I'd be inclined to give him another year.

[peebee2]

Actually the thread was about drivers getting to F1 only having raced in spec-formulas and being totally unable to cope with the technicalities of a free formula, as shown again by Jolyon spinning but not understanding how or why and throwing away a points finish in Hungary

[BSchneiderFan]

It certainly started out that way. But I still think we're mashing two separate questions together, possibly along with a third: how good is Kevin Magnussen?

[cds_uk]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Actually the thread was about drivers getting to F1 only having raced in spec-formulas and being totally unable to cope with the technicalities of a free formula, as shown again by Jolyon spinning but not understanding how or why and throwing away a points finish in Hungary

Yup, he spun, it was a shame, but he still finished ahead of Magnussen, it will be interesting to see if he is ahead of him again this weekend.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Actually the thread was about drivers getting to F1 only having raced in spec-formulas and being totally unable to cope with the technicalities of a free formula, as shown again by Jolyon spinning but not understanding how or why and throwing away a points finish in Hungary

He's not unable to cope with anything and his actual potential remains untested as he is a rookie in an iffy car with a teammate who's experience isn't that great.

The drivers who have gone on to have excellent careers whilst having spun or messed up in their first years are legion. People are completely spoilt by Hamilton and Verstappen flying in their rookies year. Often very worthy F1 careers start from a different point and require time to mature and develop.

[peebee2]

Sorry, it's clearly totally over your head as to the technicalities involved. He is learning lessons now that he should have learned long before F1 but he couldn't because of the simplistic cars he drove with minimal set up windows meaning the engineers need little real driver feedback. It's not whether or not he is good enough.

I suppose you either get how non-technical GP2 cars are compared to say pre-1995 F3000 was it you don't. Or FPA/Super FPA cars with only one set up - meaning you learn to drive but learn almost nothing about how to set a car up and give technical feedback to develop cars... Like Maldonado can undoubtedly drive but couldn't set up a dinner table as he has no feel or set up skills.

[cds_uk]

peebee2, i really don't see where you are coming from, surely the vast majority of current F1 drivers have come through pretty much the same route as Jolyon, ok he raced the FPA/Formula Two cars between 07 and 10 but even if he had gone the F3 or GP3 route before he got to GP2 then he would have been sitting in a pretty much sorted Dallara anyway. More to the point, it isn't pre 95 so what was he supposed to do?

[BSchneiderFan]

Looks like both Palmer AND Magnussen could be picking up their P45s: http://www.autosport.com/news/report...perez-for-2017