Bankruptcy hearing extended to January 28th (merged)

[Jay]

Sounds good !

[gttouring]

""GP & Gt, you guys don't trust PG or OWRS, yet you're willing to put your FULL TRUST in Tony George What's up with that??? It makes no bloody sense at all!!!""
NO no no I don't trust TG to bring great CART back from the dead- but a union of open wheel wil be best overall, in the end than the current split- look at what has happened to CART, and IRL the races in CART were great, the Cars, the drivers- IRL had intense finishes and some great races too, together they can be a better one is all.
the single oopen wheel series we expect can not be TG run alone, it must be run by at least 3 guys and that's it. No board of directors, no public nonsense, just business guys who race and love it and its history more than making themselves the history rather than the races.
which was/is TG's problem HE wants to be the history maker more than his series, and it should be races, Teams,cars, drivers in the order of what history is rememered and recorded.

[GP Racer]

Originally posted by Dov
So are we shutting down the forum until the 28th of January, Jay?

NOOOOooooo! Don't do it!

Personally, I find it hard not to follow and be opinionated on all the happenings that are presently going on. As a fan, how could you not be? Being able to air our ideas, opinions, and theories is important. It keeps our minds open.


We all want to see whats best for open wheel racing, we just differ on how to get there, and what we want it to look like when all is said and done. The future of racing in N America will probably look very different in the next couple of years. Alot of series seem to be in a state of transition, I just hope that the powers-that-be, get it right in the end...

[Dov]

Originally posted by gttouring
which was/is TG's problem HE wants to be the history maker more than his series, and it should be races, Teams,cars, drivers in the order of what history is rememered and recorded.

I agree 100% with that!

[dirtfan]

You people amaze me, it's never "I believe TG wants" or "I'ts my opinion that TG thinks"' or "I think Dario would Never" or "it appears Paul Newman would never" it's always presented as an absolute FACT!

With these amazing omniscient powers, you must be making a killing on the stock market.
???

[Dov]

Originally posted by dirtfan
You people amaze me, it's never "I believe TG wants" or "I'ts my opinion that TG thinks"' or "I think Dario would Never" or "it appears Paul Newman would never" it's always presented as an absolute FACT!

With these amazing omniscient powers, you must be making a killing on the stock market.
???

Dirtfan, who are you, the head of the TG fan club?

[indycool]

IMO, it's the CART fans that are PROMOTING TG to make history. They're the ones keeping his name on the boards so they have someone to hate. Don't recall TB ever saying that he wants to make history. He really doesn't even make that many public statements.

[Ac.]

Originally posted by GP Racer
The momentum is definetly with George. If you look at the the IRL, they've got the money, the sponsors, the manufacturers, the tracks, a great TV deal, ESPN and ABC, they've got drivers with name recognition, and quite a few are American drivers, which I feel is important, and Champ Cars doesn't. That said, the IRL has problems, but nothing close to what OWRS is facing.

GP Racer, your statement has some truth to it. The George family does have money, and the IRL does have good manufacturer support, but the reality is that we know very little about what is happening behind the scenes. Many discussions on this forum have highlighted this difference between a publicly traded company and a private one. Here are some thoughts:

Money: How long will the George family continue to pour their money into a series that is not growing in attendance or television viewership?

Manufacturers: As always this area will be unknown. Companies change their priorities and areas of focus. Toyota and Honda may stay will the IRL, or they may not.

Great TV Deal: How long can this last for the IRL? As track attendance and TV viewing continue to lag will any network step up to pay for the priviledge of broadcasting IRL races once the current deal expires? I don't think so.

Drivers: "they've got drivers with name recognition, and quite a few are American drivers". Yes they do have drivers with name recognition, and yes they do have some American drivers, but the two are not the same.

Sponsors: Everything I have heard is that sponsorship in the IRL is just as difficult to obtain as it is in other forms of racing.

Tracks: I had to leave this until last. They've got the tracks??? Indy is the only track on their schedule that turns anyones head, beyond that it's all the same. How could you say they've got the tracks.

[dirtfan]

Actually, I think (get that, I THINK, not IT'S A FACT THAT) TG screwed up when he lost his VISION and allowed the Penske types to change the direction of the IRL.
It's just that I don't allow an all-encompassing hatred occupy all my waking hours.

[GTRMagic]

Anyone take a real close look at the creditor list....

There are 2 of significant concern...
- Racer Magazine is owed a LOT of money.... does this mean its a "cash for comments" magazine designed to help keep th series at the front of mind?
- K&K Insurance.. unpaid liability insurance.. A question, in the US, if insurance is unpaid, the policy is void right?? So what events ran under a liability insurance that may now be void because the policy holder didnt pay? The claims should be a load of fun....

The rest are teams and promoters... although quite how you can rack up a hotel bill of $61,751 I am not quite sure... thats a lot of minibar peanuts and cokes...

[Dov]

As hard as it is for you to believe dirtfan, I don't spend 24Hrs of the day thinking about TG. That said, I don't trust him enough to be the lone or majority owner of a new united OW racing series.....

[dirtfan]

Looking at the creditor list, it looks like there is a ton of prize money still owed- 1.15m to Forsyth and 700k to Hass among others. Promotors running off with the purse is one of the oldest tales in racing. Seems it would scare off anybody from dealing with someone even remotely connected with the promoter. Bet from here on out, there will be lots of CYA in the contracts!

[GP Racer]

Ac, I can't answer the question of how long the George family will support their series.

I will say that they've kept it alive long enough to possibly see themselves as the "victor", if there is such a thing, in this messy battle with CART. I would think that the next 2 or 3 years is going to be a pivotal time for the IRL.

All the things I mentioned, manufacturers, drivers, sponsors, TV deals and the rest, are what George has on hand now, to give him momentum, and now is when its the most important to him. He may not have those things in the future, but he has them at a time when OWRS doesn't, and thats why I think it puts him in the stronger position.

[dirtfan]

In retrospect, maybe back when TG and Andrew Craig had their little "disagreement" the CART BOD should have jumped in bed with the SCCA and gone for the F1 and Road Racing crowd and left the USAC types to follow TG. That way, today we'd all be singing the Ren and Stimpy Happy-Happy-Joy-Joy song.

[GP Racer]

Wow, Racer Magazine!

I would think that raises some concern about there journalistic integrity!

[Zinger]

From the look of objections we may not even see the Jan 28 auction as 88 corp has objected on grounds of due dilergence. Therefore it would be to optimstic to suggest that the Jan 28 day could be pushed back to mid top late Feb. This would almost see the end of the long beach race.

[Fogelhund]

Originally posted by dirtfan


With these amazing omniscient powers, you must be making a killing on the stock market.
???

Buy MPH.








Doh!

[The Snout]

Originally posted by GP Racer
Wow, Racer Magazine!

I would think that raises some concern about there journalistic integrity!

How much is the unpaid bill ? Perhaps they just didn't pay for advertising.

[Flatspot]

Hey folks, don't go jumping all over Racer Comunications and questioning their journalistic integrity. It was Racer that published ChampCar Magazine and this debt $356K most assuredly comes from the publication dedicated soley to ChampCars. They even went out of their way to fulfill ChampCar Magazine subcriptions with Racer when ChampCar went belly up. Easy to see why it did now. Damn, I miss that rag.

[macdaddy]

"88 corp has objected on grounds of due dilergence"

Can you expand upon that, Zinger?

[GTRMagic]

88 Corp apparently complained that there was insufficient time to conduct a proper due diligence on the records as presented by the administrators.

I think they have a fair point, having done a number of these with companies who are trading well, it takes the better part of a month to get the team's head around what goes where, who owns and owes what and to whom....

And this could very well be a delaying tactic... but does have a level of legitimacy

[Flatspot]

Originally posted by GTRMagic
And this could very well be a delaying tactic... but does have a level of legitimacy

I don't disagree that it is a good argument but evidently the court does as they have already over-rulued this objection.

[Dov]

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that CART's assets will not automatically be sold to the group who makes the highest bid, but also has CART's, and it's fans, best interest in mind.

P.S. You see dirtfan.....I'm not 100% sure!

[macdaddy]

Let me tell ya... I can't wait until we've got other things to talk about! These legal discussions are well and good, but I can't contribute to them 'cause I don't know nothing!

Hopefully, now that it's a new year, the Players contract is up and Forsythe will divulge who his new sponsor is!

[Brian W Keske]

Sorry, but I don't think the fans work into the equation here. To remind; the Judge has no knowlege of racing, so how could he make such an assumption?