[BTCC] 2024 BTCC - Croft Rds. 16/17/18

[touringcarnut]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Whoever was at fault in the Hill vs Chilton contact, what Hill did wrong was to get involved in that battle at all. Chilton was on the (much) faster tyre than Hill and Hill was aggressive as if he was fighting for a win. With Chilton being equally aggressive and having nothing to lose, Hill should've been smarter and thought about the bigger picture - the title. Yes, always nice to see drivers fighting, that's what we watch racing for and yes, Hill didn't seem much slower than Chilton on softs but still, rules - as dumb as they are at the moment - normally put hard tyres at a big disadvantage and Hill should've been aware of that. Situations like that decide titles and often show who's 'complete' enough to win the title and who is not. That's not to say that Hill is not a title-winning material but as fast as he is, he's fighting for the title with probably the best and smartest drivers in the field and it's the worse weekends that might decide who wins and who loses.

This. Choosing your battles in each race in the same way we should in our lives.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Whoever was at fault in the Hill vs Chilton contact, what Hill did wrong was to get involved in that battle at all. Chilton was on the (much) faster tyre than Hill and Hill was aggressive as if he was fighting for a win. With Chilton being equally aggressive and having nothing to lose, Hill should've been smarter and thought about the bigger picture - the title. Yes, always nice to see drivers fighting, that's what we watch racing for and yes, Hill didn't seem much slower than Chilton on softs but still, rules - as dumb as they are at the moment - normally put hard tyres at a big disadvantage and Hill should've been aware of that. Situations like that decide titles and often show who's 'complete' enough to win the title and who is not. That's not to say that Hill is not a title-winning material but as fast as he is, he's fighting for the title with probably the best and smartest drivers in the field and it's the worse weekends that might decide who wins and who loses.

would you have the same to Tingram if he was to come at short end in Turkington battle ?

[coppice]

Christ almighty who cares ? Don't people watch the BTCC for the on track action and shunts anyway ? Or is apportioning 'blame' now part of the appeal too? The whole thing is a very slickly marketed show with an absurdly complex set of rules cynically designed to heighten the jeopardy and drama for the folk watching on telly.

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by SSmith

The CTCRC nearly always brings together a fantastic field of cars, and the racing was great fun. Definitely the best racing of the day (and minus a couple of small scrapes earlier in the day, the cleanest too!).

There were a lot of guest appearances compared to the regular CTCRC field. The addition of the usual Jordan Racing Team-entered cars (Tordoff, Dickenson, Shovlin, Cullen, Chambers et al) plus the likes of Guy Smith, Max Chilton, Nick Swift, Grant Williams was very welcome. The highest finishing CTCRC regular was Joe Ferguson in the Mini he usually shares with Tom Bell.

I disagree with the way this is marketed though. I think only three of those cars were truly pre-1966. The rest are modern replicas. And all the guests just meant that some full-season drivers were not able to get entries.

[Robin Marriott]

Originally Posted by sceptic

I disagree with the way this is marketed though. I think only three of those cars were truly pre-1966. The rest are modern replicas. And all the guests just meant that some full-season drivers were not able to get entries.

I’m not sure how else they’d market it. The class rules for all their classes are a similar format.

You want to race a car built in 2001? That’s too new for the pre 93 but fits in the pre 2003.

Their rule book doesn’t say anything about the car being built as a race car within the years stated in the class name.

Dictating that the cars need to be built in period would mean the grids were so slim the club would cease to exist.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by Robin Marriott

Dictating that the cars need to be built in period would mean the grids were so slim the club would cease to exist.

And assumedly there’s not much original left on the ones that were.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Robin Marriott

I’m not sure how else they’d market it. The class rules for all their classes are a similar format.

You want to race a car built in 2001? That’s too new for the pre 93 but fits in the pre 2003.

Their rule book doesn’t say anything about the car being built as a race car within the years stated in the class name.

Dictating that the cars need to be built in period would mean the grids were so slim the club would cease to exist.

Any original car is worth Mad money, the current cars HAVE to be built to original spec ( engine and tyre development has continued apace) Guest drivers? Who? More appearances on the TOCA bill please!

[mick bennett]

Alliaace need to get their game plan together more.



Easy to say now , but was the logic of both Cammish and Sutton starting on softs in Race One. At least one should have been on Hards, as everybody around them were all on Softs.
Race Two neither had a cat in hells chance of getting anywhere other than backwards.


Sutton Cammish and Rowbottom need to start working together, otherwise they are nowhere this year.



Great driving by Cook on Huff !!.

[cameronpoe]

[QUOTE=mick bennett;4221153]Alliaace need to get their game plan together more.



Easy to say now , but was the logic of both Cammish and Sutton starting on softs in Race One. At least one should have been on Hards, as everybody around them were all on Softs.
Race Two neither had a cat in hells chance of getting anywhere other than backwards.


Sutton Cammish and Rowbottom need to start working together, otherwise they are nowhere this year.



Great driving by Cook on Huff !!.[/QUOTE

You normally do what your direct competitors are doing , Cook is alternate strategy nearly every week because he hasn’t yet got the car to compete neither has Huff as you could see in Race 3.

Other than getting to Tom Chilton faster which we couldn’t do there wasn’t really a strategy that could have got us (Dan) more points or really Ash .. we need more speed and the team are flat out seeing what is possible

It’s not over yet .

More twists and turns I am sure

[Sodemo]

I think that was one of the worst weekends I can remember for WSR.

I mean what is with that story of them deleting the wrong laptime for Jake Hill in quali? Does that have any recourse?

Regarding the incidents on raceday, I think the Hill incident was probably inevitable, did it deserve punishment? Maybe, but what does it matter, it doesn't put Hill back on the track with 4 wheels pointing the right way, so its academic really. The Turks incidents, im not really sure what happened with the Sutton one, it looked like he just ran into the back of Colin, or Colin braked early or something, not sure to be honest. The one with Ingram, again, the camera footage isnt the best so its tough to really see what happened there, I know Ingram in the past (I think) has been guilty of overly aggressive defending and not conceding lost causes, but in this case, its hard to really give a verdict unless other footage emerges.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I think that was one of the worst weekends I can remember for WSR.

I mean what is with that story of them deleting the wrong laptime for Jake Hill in quali? Does that have any recourse?

Regarding the incidents on raceday, I think the Hill incident was probably inevitable, did it deserve punishment? Maybe, but what does it matter, it doesn't put Hill back on the track with 4 wheels pointing the right way, so its academic really. The Turks incidents, im not really sure what happened with the Sutton one, it looked like he just ran into the back of Colin, or Colin braked early or something, not sure to be honest. The one with Ingram, again, the camera footage isnt the best so its tough to really see what happened there, I know Ingram in the past (I think) has been guilty of overly aggressive defending and not conceding lost causes, but in this case, its hard to really give a verdict unless other footage emerges.

I thought the Race Director and Stewards had already done that?..

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I think that was one of the worst weekends I can remember for WSR.

I mean what is with that story of them deleting the wrong laptime for Jake Hill in quali? Does that have any recourse?

so why can't they admit being wrong and give Hill one get out of jail free card

like he is allowed to make a ride infringement and get away with it

[tee.1s]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Whoever was at fault in the Hill vs Chilton contact, what Hill did wrong was to get involved in that battle at all. Chilton was on the (much) faster tyre than Hill and Hill was aggressive as if he was fighting for a win. With Chilton being equally aggressive and having nothing to lose, Hill should've been smarter and thought about the bigger picture - the title. Yes, always nice to see drivers fighting, that's what we watch racing for and yes, Hill didn't seem much slower than Chilton on softs but still, rules - as dumb as they are at the moment - normally put hard tyres at a big disadvantage and Hill should've been aware of that. Situations like that decide titles and often show who's 'complete' enough to win the title and who is not. That's not to say that Hill is not a title-winning material but as fast as he is, he's fighting for the title with probably the best and smartest drivers in the field and it's the worse weekends that might decide who wins and who loses.

WSR's silly tyre strategy putting Hill on the soft's in race 1 partially caused this, however its evident that Hill needs to adopt that "turkington mindset"when it comes to fighting cars sometimes

[mick bennett]

[QUOTE=cameronpoe;4221159]

Originally Posted by mick bennett

Alliaace need to get their game plan together more.



Easy to say now , but was the logic of both Cammish and Sutton starting on softs in Race One. At least one should have been on Hards, as everybody around them were all on Softs.
Race Two neither had a cat in hells chance of getting anywhere other than backwards.


Sutton Cammish and Rowbottom need to start working together, otherwise they are nowhere this year.



Great driving by Cook on Huff !!.[/QUOTE

You normally do what your direct competitors are doing , Cook is alternate strategy nearly every week because he hasn’t yet got the car to compete neither has Huff as you could see in Race 3.

Other than getting to Tom Chilton faster which we couldn’t do there wasn’t really a strategy that could have got us (Dan) more points or really Ash .. we need more speed and the team are flat out seeing what is possible

It’s not over yet .

More twists and turns I am sure

Exactly my earlier point, no imagination or proper planning being shown !!.



Cook has now won two races by using the same strategy as at Oulton Park. Very simple Run Softs at a different time to the rest of the front runners in both cases Race 2 he won both !!.



Sutton does'nt appear to be happy with his car . The car is simply too slow !! Why ??

[cameronpoe]

Our car is Good when the road turns but needs a bit more on the straight bits , work in progress.

Still game on .

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by mick bennett

Sutton does'nt appear to be happy with his car . The car is simply too slow !! Why ??

In the winter of 22-23, they did a lot of work on the car and extracted every possible performance advantage they could. In the winter of 23-24, there was nothing more that they could do, despite having the three best engineers in the paddock.

Compare that to BSM and WSR, who were able to find more time in the cars last winter.

The NAPA cars aren't slow, they are no worse than last season (other than being a year older). But everyone else has taken a step forward.

You can almost guarantee that they'll run a different car next year. And that they've already started working on it.

[Heavyd123]

Could NAPA have had a boost reduction possibly ?

[billy bleach]

You can almost guarantee that they'll run a different car next year. And that they've already started working on it.[/QUOTE]

With one year of the current rules left?

[S griffin]

I haven’t seen any evidence to suggest Alliance will go to a new car next year and not sure why they would either. The car might be getting old, but it can still win races

[cameronpoe]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I haven’t seen any evidence to suggest Alliance will go to a new car next year and not sure why they would either. The car might be getting old, but it can still win races

The Car is good around corners .. it lacks motor and has done for a while but this year the chassis can’t make up difference..

The Hyundai has a very modern favourable architecture it’s straight line performance and in gear out of traction zone is best in paddock, if Ingram misses an Apex it doesn’t matter he is still on top of you by next Corner .. hard to defend from someone who can get an overlap so regularly \ fair play to Swindon .. it’s a tough sport … and nobody stands still.

[porsche962fan]

^ maybe a disadvantage for Sutton that Cammish is just 12 points behind him so not so willing to move over


at WSR it's now clear cut Hill is no 1 and the only with title hopes

[tee.1s]

Originally Posted by cameronpoe

The Car is good around corners .. it lacks motor and has done for a while but this year the chassis can’t make up difference..

The Hyundai has a very modern favourable architecture it’s straight line performance and in gear out of traction zone is best in paddock, if Ingram misses an Apex it doesn’t matter he is still on top of you by next Corner .. hard to defend from someone who can get an overlap so regularly \ fair play to Swindon .. it’s a tough sport … and nobody stands still.

Yeah the Hyundai is clear fastest for me. I expect the gap to widen by the seasons end, and for tings to take the championship with a round, or two to spare

[BtccLee]

Originally Posted by tee.1s

Yeah the Hyundai is clear fastest for me. I expect the gap to widen by the seasons end, and for tings to take the championship with a round, or two to spare

Usually I’d agree, but I feel like the three main contenders are so close, and tempers have started to fray. I wouldn’t be surprised if we get some more twists, the racing has been on and over the line and at places like Knockhill I could envisage the gap closing.

[hen henths]

Just wanted to say I felt real sadness for Turks when I saw him heading for the wall, after seeing him so competitive and making such good progress that day. There was something about the way his car and Tingram's kept bouncing off each other that we likely shouldn't be surprised that was the end result. It looked more energetic than the usual rubbing to me at least.

What's that about Hill having the wrong qualifying lap invalidated? Surely he deserves some kind of a bonus at Knockhill to compensate for that!

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by hen henths

What's that about Hill having the wrong qualifying lap invalidated? Surely he deserves some kind of a bonus at Knockhill to compensate for that!

He’s now put out an apology on social media for blaming BTCC ‘“for the track limits that got me penalised. It wasn’t fair and I was in the heat of the moment. Apologies to the BTCC team”