[WEC] New rules. New manufacturers. The 2021 and beyond positivity thread!

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Mike E

2022
LMDh admitted to WEC although there probably won't be any cars unless the 2023 entrants try to get a run late in the season

This part is interesting to me. The Dh cars need a new P2 chassis as a base, but when will those be available? Once they are available, or the designs at least, then the Dh manufacturers have to design bodywork and aero, engine and cooling, and a plan to put that all together.

Can all that happen before the end of the '22 season? Maybe for Mazda/Multimatic who are already linked, but is everyone else waiting around for P2 chassis rules/regs? Or are those done already and I've missed it?

[seanyb505]

If I had to cynically guess, I would say the next gen P2 cars will be largely unchanged from the current gens. Same tubs, maybe tweaked engine/ecu combo to better fit with the decrease in speeds, maybe aero updates. I know the Toyota LMH car isn't the old P1, but they learned so many great lessons that the next generation only appears marginally evolved. I'd expect similar from the P2 constructors - especially Oreca.

And if that's actually the case, the LMDh constructors won't actually care about waiting for next gen cars. Engine, aero, suspension tuning (I think?) are all specific to that constructor. So in theory they could be building up the new cars now with potentially minimal changes required by the next P2 ruleset.

I wouldn't be surprised if LMDh cars start testing before the calendar year is over. I feel like the C8R had maybe a 17 month span of on-track testing before it's competition debut. Without any real evidence to back me up, I think LMDh manufacturers have sufficient data from current P2 chassis to start their own design process with confidence that there won't be any major packaging adjustments to make before actual mock-ups start happening.

Current armchair engineering degree is from Ashley Furniture.

Regarding the current Acura teams wanting to go to Le Mans - they'll be on the first flight to Le Mans as soon as Honda pays for it.

[Mike E]

Good question. Could just be the usual story of ACO getting their own rules muddled up...

Anyway, Ford chipping in here but sounds more like GT3 than LMDh.

https://racer.com/2021/01/27/fords-r...-gt3-interest/

[DistortedSmile]

Originally Posted by Mike E

Porsche LMDh
Also customer cars?
Porsche have plenty of associated or contracted teams and drivers to draw on.

Porsche confirmed factory programmes for both WEC and IMSA in addition to customer cars.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Mike E

Both WTR and MSR have said they want to race at LM. Fingers crossed.

no doubts on that, but those teams will be some kind of semi-backed teams, not full private entries.
In my opinion mazda and acura will be full focused on IMSA and will maybe try a LM program in 2024 only if porsche and/or audi will show to have some chance to be equally competitive against toyota and peugeot. Assuming that audi and porsche will race at LM in 2023 for real.
Mazda will keep with 2 multimatic/mazda motorsport entries, Acura will have MSR, WTR and or other backed teams, forget to see a real private effort in lmdh to me for these 2 manufacturers. I think only GM will sell cars to whoever will make request, but I can see them interested on lmdh only if competitive teams like AXR or ganassi will stick with them, I don't expect GM could be interested on a LM program.
About audi I think WRT will be the "audi sport" team tasked for a WEC program and don't expect audi lmdh cars sold to eventually private teams before one or two seasons. Have no clues about porsche, they stated to be interested both in WEC and IMSA and this would require a lot of effort and money... porsche work team could run the WEC program, Core or another top team like penske could run the IMSA program.
But it's too early to make any realistic forecast since we don't know how long pandemic will take place and how will further damage world and automotive economy... not to consider how strange are porsche plans since they would take part to these sportscars competitions despite their strategy to produce and release more and more full electric road cars.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by seanyb505

If I had to cynically guess, I would say the next gen P2 cars will be largely unchanged from the current gens. Same tubs, maybe tweaked engine/ecu combo to better fit with the decrease in speeds, maybe aero updates. I know the Toyota LMH car isn't the old P1, but they learned so many great lessons that the next generation only appears marginally evolved. I'd expect similar from the P2 constructors - especially Oreca.

And if that's actually the case, the LMDh constructors won't actually care about waiting for next gen cars. Engine, aero, suspension tuning (I think?) are all specific to that constructor. So in theory they could be building up the new cars now with potentially minimal changes required by the next P2 ruleset.

I wouldn't be surprised if LMDh cars start testing before the calendar year is over. I feel like the C8R had maybe a 17 month span of on-track testing before it's competition debut. Without any real evidence to back me up, I think LMDh manufacturers have sufficient data from current P2 chassis to start their own design process with confidence that there won't be any major packaging adjustments to make before actual mock-ups start happening.

Current armchair engineering degree is from Ashley Furniture.

Regarding the current Acura teams wanting to go to Le Mans - they'll be on the first flight to Le Mans as soon as Honda pays for it.

I wonder if the LMPH will be 2 meters wide, 5 meters long and cabs a bit bigger than the LMP1(LMP2) like the Hypercar, in that case could the OMS build an LMDH using the current LMP2 chassis?

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by canaglia

Have no clues about porsche, they stated to be interested both in WEC and IMSA and this would require a lot of effort and money... porsche work team could run the WEC program, Core or another top team like penske could run the IMSA program.

Porsche have clearly stated that one of the most attractive aspects of the new regulations is the fact that they will be able to compete in the "big races" on both sides of the pond with the same car. This is obvious when you look at Porsche geographical sales distribution.

I too suspect that the IMSA program will look similar to the RS Spyder program of old.

Originally Posted by canaglia

But it's too early to make any realistic forecast since we don't know how long pandemic will take place and how will further damage world and automotive economy... not to consider how strange are porsche plans since they would take part to these sportscars competitions despite their strategy to produce and release more and more full electric road cars.

Its actually not strange at all. Porsche has also clearly stated that they are going to try and market ICE engined cars (911 and especially the GT versions) for as long as they can. In fact Porsche is now investing heavily in synthetic fuels , and is in discussion with the ACO in order to allow these fuels in future regulation changes.

https://www.hagerty.com/media/news/p...nto-high-gear/

https://www.racecar-engineering.com/...rsche-in-lmdh/

[Mike E]

Core exploring LMDh possibilities

https://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/c...possibilities/

[Mike E]

Well...

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2021/0...from-2022.html

[JoeW04]

Originally Posted by Mike E

Well...

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2021/0...from-2022.html

Do you think corvette would consider moving their cars to WEC rather than redeveloping them?

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by JoeW04

Do you think corvette would consider moving their cars to WEC rather than redeveloping them?

extremely unlikely, GM runs in IMSA to promote domestic US market.
What's the main difference between 488 GTE and GT3? some aero parts, ECU, geometry suspenions and ABS/TCS.... I'm sure C8R can be converted in a GT3 in a couple of months if not less.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by canaglia

extremely unlikely, GM runs in IMSA to promote domestic US market.
What's the main difference between 488 GTE and GT3? some aero parts, ECU, geometry suspenions and ABS/TCS.... I'm sure C8R can be converted in a GT3 in a couple of months if not less.

I agree. Would be shocked not to see those cars on the grid in GT3Pro next year.

This has to be considered positive news for teams and especially factories looking for a place to send their drivers!

[Napolis]

WEC will follow soon.
IMHO.

[seanyb505]

I think that's the hope of many of us.

[Mike E]

There were lots of GT drivers on Twitter yesterday very excited about this. I wonder SRO make of it.

[helgi]

Well, to kill an engineering class and replace it with just another BoPped one. It's a new definition of noun "Excitement". I should put a note in my dictionaries.

[Mike E]

Ganassi also keen on a return to LM.

https://www.autosport.com/imsa/news/...return-in-lmdh

[chernaudi]

I wonder if I'm mis-understanding something I read on Facebook, but it seems that Michelin are now spec tire supplier for LMP2 and GTE-Am, in addition to LMH/LMDH. That means that if true, only GTE-Pro is now open tire, and no one there is buying Goodyears.

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I wonder if I'm mis-understanding something I read on Facebook, but it seems that Michelin are now spec tire supplier for LMP2 and GTE-Am, in addition to LMH/LMDH. That means that if true, only GTE-Pro is now open tire, and no one there is buying Goodyears.

Goodyear are the spec tyre supplier for LMP2 in WEC and ELMS. Not sure about IMSA.

[tux]

Originally Posted by Mike E

There were lots of GT drivers on Twitter yesterday very excited about this. I wonder SRO make of it.

Who knows. They'll be ok though, hopefully. Although im curious to see what happens after their sim racing announcement.

This is great news though, ive wanted this for a few years, genuinely really pleased with this.

[seanyb505]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I wonder if I'm mis-understanding something I read on Facebook, but it seems that Michelin are now spec tire supplier for LMP2 and GTE-Am, in addition to LMH/LMDH. That means that if true, only GTE-Pro is now open tire, and no one there is buying Goodyears.

Link to source? It does sound like a large misunderstanding, as surely we would have seen it reported that goodyear is effectively leaving the classes they were chosen as the spec tire.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by helgi

Well, to kill an engineering class and replace it with just another BoPped one. It's a new definition of noun "Excitement". I should put a note in my dictionaries.

GTE ceased being an engineering class years ago. It has been BoP regulated for 5-6 years or so now. When they did that, it became a pointless class.

[canaglia]

plot twist incoming... gt2 "evolved" in gte was actually a bop class even before GT3 was created... main difference was that over 10 years ago, before GT1 demise and the entry of other manufacturers like corvette, bmw, work AMR etc... gt2 was mainly a ferrari vs porsche class + small/indipendent tuners.

[helgi]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

GTE ceased being an engineering class years ago. It has been BoP regulated for 5-6 years or so now. When they did that, it became a pointless class.

Weren't they allowed to make some developments more frequently than in GT3? There were different tyre manufacturers too. Even from this point of view, with all the "waivers", I can not see where's the "excitement" to get just another GT3 series.

[Simmi]

HOLY *******ING ****!!!!!

https://twitter.com/FerrariRaces/sta...90989168545801

Inject this news into my veins (and the vaccine)!