Gen 3 progress

[dirtymacca]

Originally Posted by bluesport

You need to come to grips with the fact that it isn't easy to obtain technical parity with the two different engine specifications.

This mess is like gender equality... trying to make two OBVIOUSLY different items the same.... 2 valves v's 4 valves = balls and boobs.... Madness.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Is Northstar a current GM engine? 4V, DOHC engines aren’t necessarily the best engines in a rev-limited racing environment & those doing the homologation for the Camaro know that.

Alternative question would be why Ford didn’t continue with a pushrod engine after running one in the category for 30 years, or continue to support the original plan for their engine to be the category engine?

Think it’s a case of a hard place & a rock standing off. Was always going to take some finessing to equalise the engines.

No it's not a current engine, but Ford is the primary manufacturer and Chevrolet is the secondary manufacturer.

The Northstar is a good engine. It flows more (4 valves per cylinder), has 4 cam VVT, has a girdle main cap design. It's arguably better than the LS/LT in many ways. Perfect for setting the category rev limit at 8500rpm or 9000rpm.

4 valves per cylinder is the way to go. You get far superior cylinder head flow with far less lift.

https://youtu.be/MRHWBP6QB2E?si=ZDaIHXMCn9E0ikt_&t=111



That's a guy who loves Chevy engines saying that. Just sayin'.

If pushrod engines are so great, why was Chevrolet's Indy Racing League engine based on the Northstar and not based on the small block or LS?!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmo...Indy_V8_engine

There is some relationship between the Oldsmobile Aurora engine (3.5-4.0L Northstar derivative) and the Aurora custom block & heads used on the Chevrolet small blocks from 2003 locally that is not totally clear.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Ford knew all this **** going into it.

So why did they backflip on category engine?

Blaming Ford for Chevrolet being unable to produce a DOHC downsized V8 that did not blow head gaskets is absurd in the extreme.

The Northstar should have replaced the Chevrolet small block if it was designed properly. The advantages of DOHC and 4xVVT for optimising power and economy is definitive, not to mention the increased cylinder head flow and stronger block design.

----------

Edit - To clarify, neither Chevrolet nor Ford stand for excellence in engineering, merely "not as bad as Dodge"!

It is clear as day that a category engine needed to be a neutral engine like a Nissan VK56 (Nelson Hartley loves them, they are great, basically the same as what he would design from a clean sheet) or Toyota 2UR.

Having a non-neutral engine as a category engine is a dumb idea and was never going to be acceptable. The category should have been straight over to see Todd Kelly to get a fleet of Nissan VK56s (or VK50s or nice 10,000rpm VK40s like those Hartley NZ speedway engines!).

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by dirtymacca

This mess is like gender equality... trying to make two OBVIOUSLY different items the same.... 2 valves v's 4 valves = balls and boobs.... Madness.

Haha, very funny but also very accurate.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

No it's not a current engine, but Ford is the primary manufacturer and Chevrolet is the secondary manufacturer. ;

There are of course, no "primary" nor "secondary" manufacturers - just manufacturers.

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

If pushrod engines are so great, why was Chevrolet's Indy Racing League engine based on the Northstar and not based on the small block or LS?!

Because the two series couldn't be more different - (relatively) lightweight single seaters compared to heavier touring cars with a category rev limit of 7,500 rpm. With the rev limit in place, a 2 valve pushrod engine is not a bad choice - much lower centre of gravity, good torque from the bottom etc.

With the category ECU in place, VVT may well not be an option, so 4 valve, quad cam engines aren't able to show some of the benefits normally expected of them with the rev limit in place - so in a racing series with a rev limit and no VVT, going with a quad cam engine was always going to take a lot of work to get parity with a pushrod engine.

Fair play to all concerned that the differences appear to be very small and the transient dyno / torque sensors regime should quantify what if any changes should be made.

[bathurst77]

Originally Posted by dirtymacca

This mess is like gender equality... trying to make two OBVIOUSLY different items the same.... 2 valves v's 4 valves = balls and boobs.... Madness.

I guess RedBull could put blue ovals on their cars

"Yes, I was born GM but I choose to identify as a Mustang."

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

I guess RedBull could put blue ovals on their cars

"Yes, I was born GM but I choose to identify as a Mustang."

[Just Do It!]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

I guess RedBull could put blue ovals on their cars

"Yes, I was born GM but I choose to identify as a Mustang."

Probably even more unfortunate for those middle-aged chaps with both balls and boobs, who are now likely clammering to get off the Inclusive Bus, because despite some mild body dismorphia, they actually know which camp they are in

[Ares]

Is this why Supercars moved to the trans axle?

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Ares

Is this why Supercars moved to the trans axle?

I think you get cancelled for calling it that now.

But I grew up listening to 2 Live Crew and watching Eddie Murphy standup so I am well and truly cancelled.

[Ares]

Originally Posted by Mixer

I think you get cancelled for calling it that now.

But I grew up listening to 2 Live Crew and watching Eddie Murphy standup so I am well and truly cancelled.

Non binary axle? Stop digging?

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Ford knew all this **** going into it.

So why did they backflip on category engine?

All their engine issues are their folly.

And the irony of Ford apologists accusing ME of meltdowns is comical.

I was right, Mixer went Bananas, hook line and sinker.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Casper

I was right, Mixer went Bananas, hook line and sinker.

[V8 Fireworks]

Thomas Randle gives the Tickford Engineering steering rack the seal of approval:

The steering feel felt like Gen 2. The great thing was we ran it in both races to see the durability of it, to see whether or not the feeling would change, and it didn't really change. Obviously there has been a lot of talk about the current rack in the cars and how much the feeling changes and they're not very strong if you have wheel-to-wheel contact; the team have gone through quite a few racks.

https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/randle-d...azing-success/

Sounds like it should supplement or replace the Sportech item. A nice earner for Tickford Engineering!

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Thomas Randle gives the Tickford Engineering steering rack the seal of approval:


https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/randle-d...azing-success/

Sounds like it should supplement or replace the Sportech item. A nice earner for Tickford Engineering!

Tickford could offer them to T8.

[bluesport]

Dark Horse not for supercars.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/11/09...-to-supercars/

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Tickford could offer them to T8.

888 made a proper rack, the **** production based one they have was selected because of Tickford and BJR being tightwads.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Dark Horse not for supercars.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/11/09...-to-supercars/

Nice commitment fellas

[Mixer]

Maybe Ford learned their lesson.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Nice commitment fellas

You are very negative the Dark Horse isn't needed.
.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by bluesport

You are very negative the Dark Horse isn't needed.
.

It’s the latest body style from the Ford factory
So the Mustang being run here next year and/or beyond will not resemble the latest body style.

You might have thought the development of the new model might have had wind tunnel testing, so the Windshear experiment could be validated against known credible data with context.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

It’s the latest body style from the Ford factory
So the Mustang being run here next year and/or beyond will not resemble the latest body style.

You might have thought the development of the new model might have had wind tunnel testing, so the Windshear experiment could be validated against known credible data with context.

The S650 model only started racing this year so they won't change it in a hurry.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Mixer

888 made a proper rack, the **** production based one they have was selected because of Tickford and BJR being tightwads.

The same 888 Race Engineering who can't even design a bracket to hold a gear lever that doesn't snap?

...and who designed the Team18 Gen 2 steering racks that routinely broke too, unlike Randle's assessment of Tickford steering racks being trouble-free. It seems like Tickford Engineering has solved the matter and produced a properly engineered item!

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

The same 888 Race Engineering who can't even design a bracket to hold a gear lever that doesn't snap?

...and who designed the Team18 Gen 2 steering racks that routinely broke too, unlike Randle's assessment of Tickford steering racks being trouble-free. It seems like Tickford Engineering has solved the matter and produced a properly engineered item!

Credit where it's due, Tickford seem to have solved the problem.

[MitchZ06]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

It’s the latest body style from the Ford factory
So the Mustang being run here next year and/or beyond will not resemble the latest body style.

You might have thought the development of the new model might have had wind tunnel testing, so the Windshear experiment could be validated against known credible data with context.

Isn't the 'latest body style' using your logic the GTD? I don't see how using the Dark Horse variant will make it any better in RSC vs the Camaro when they share nothing in common with the road cars outside looking like them and same capacity engine.

This news is a total non-starter imo. Means nothing.