McLaren Sportscars

[rich07]

So anything on McLarenGT out of Paris?

[MitchZ06]

I've heard word that there may be something announced or shown, still 2 more days (Sat-Sunday) to go so it's just a wait and see thing...

[rich07]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

I've heard word that there may be something announced or shown, still 2 more days (Sat-Sunday) to go so it's just a wait and see thing...

Would be nice to hear an official announcement but Im not expecting anything to be shown as their focus would be on showing off P1 right now.

[MitchZ06]

Pretty sure 'oh just a race car' won't take any of the spotlight away from P1, my god that car makes me want to do illegal/semi-legal/silly things to get one...

[CTD]

Originally Posted by rich07

Would be nice to hear an official announcement but Im not expecting anything to be shown as their focus would be on showing off P1 right now.

Could be a nice way too steal some additional focus

[rich07]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

Pretty sure 'oh just a race car' won't take any of the spotlight away from P1, my god that car makes me want to do illegal/semi-legal/silly things to get one...

You and me both. Cant wait for more details on the car.

[urdragon]

Motorpasion according once again to autosport printed edition confirms mclaren GTE:

http://www.motorpasionf1.com/world-e...xima-temporada

[MitchZ06]

Might be nothing but McLaren GT on Twitter is a follower of the official ACO twitter....

[MitchZ06]

Hmm...what's that grey/white thing behind those guys?

[Pandamasque]

On the right? From what can be seen it could literally be anything. New LMP1, Ron's new pencil sharpener, even a photocopier.

[MitchZ06]

No...it could either be an updated GT3 or it could be the GTE car...(not whatever that is on the right)

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

No...it could either be an updated GT3 or it could be the GTE car...(not whatever that is on the right)

It's just the GT3.

[MitchZ06]

So you have insider information then?

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

So you have insider information then?

No, just looked at that picture and a photo of the GT3 in action side-by-side and they look exactly the same to me.

[MitchZ06]

Who says the GTE will be radically different? It'll be a bit wider but other than that I don't see how it'll be different to the GT3 visually.

[MitchZ06]

[lucky snake]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

Who says the GTE will be radically different? It'll be a bit wider but other than that I don't see how it'll be different to the GT3 visually.

if you take a GT3 car that respects the chassis/engine rules and dimension limits (width, lenght, height) then remove the diffuser inserting a flat one and some other aero part, well, the car can be easily homologated as GTE, as reiter did with lp560 gt2 and bmw will do with z4 gte (forcing fia/aco to bend some rule). With the BES bop (something like 1270kg, F8cm/R9cm, 2x35mm and P.1,85) the mp4-12c gt3 was able to run 2.00.6 at silverstone, while the 2011 pole of GTE-pro was 2.01.7 (the 2012 gt qualifying were in semi-wet conditions). If i'm not wrong, the problem is that even if the engine rules have been recently changed, the mp4-12c gte should however use the stock turbo (in gt3 is allowed to use more racing parts) and you all know that isn't the best affair in a race car for endurance events. Even the evora GTE switched somehow for a cosworth NA version of their turbo toyota road engine.

[MitchZ06]

The 3.8L V8TT in the MP4 fits the turbo engine regs (4.0L max) so no issues there, only thing is the turbos but I believe the road car turbos are the same units found in the P1 hypercar coming so pushing out a bit under 500hp (alot less than the 616hp of the road car) they should do fine in an endurance racer.

I just can't wait to see it...

[lucky snake]

the issue is not about the engine displacement but you know if racing turbo parts are used in racing cars and not stock parts there should be a reason... the power output isn't the problem but the functionality and reliability is. I can't remember a recent competitive gt1/gt2/gt3 car powered by a turbo engine, the one that comes in my mind is the 911 GT1 (1998).
Another more attractive solution could be this: knowing that the M838T is a modern evolution of the nissan VRH engines, they just could do what nissan did with the VRH35... in late '90 they removed the turbochargers and increased the displacement obtaining the VRH50A (5.0L NA) that powered the nissan R391.

[MitchZ06]

I referenced the HP as it relates to the engineering and structural integrity of the parts. If they're capable of however many km's they do between a service in the road car at 616hp or more then at under 500hp they should be good for that same distance being abused in a race car. Considering what the engine may be possible of without the turbos the stress they would be put under wouldn't be imo anything significant.

[lucky snake]

but you can't compare the lifetime of an engine for a road car with the racing version of that engine for a race car! the base is the same, but 75% and more of parts are different! the LS7 of a street Z06 can run easily also for 25.000 and more km without any big manutention work, a katech LS7 lifetime wasn't more longer than the 5.000km required for the le mans event.
Then we're however talking about a possible gte versione of the the mp4-12c gt3 engine that is self-destruction mode addicted.

[Félix]

Originally Posted by lucky snake

Another more attractive solution could be this: knowing that the M838T is a modern evolution of the nissan VRH engines, they just could do what nissan did with the VRH35... in late '90 they removed the turbochargers and increased the displacement obtaining the VRH50A (5.0L NA) that powered the nissan R391.

Completely wrong info on the VRH50 as far as I know. They share the same prefix but the 35 was a turbo (iron I believe) block from the late 80s whilst the NA V8 was developed at the same time as the IRL unit and shared basics with it.

Now I'm more than interested in that link between the McLaren engine and Nissan units. It had been mentioned that McLaren worked with a specialist to come up with "their" engine. It could be Cosworth, Mahle, Menard/MCT or Ricardo, but I've never looked into it...

[MitchZ06]

Ricardo designed/builds the M838T for McLaren iirc.

[lucky snake]

how can you say that i was wrong about vrh50 and then basicly confirm what i said? maybe is the word "design" that created confusion.

The VRH engines are racing versions of VH road nissan engines that debuted in road cars around late '80, the most recent one is the VRH34 in his various versions that is used in the gt-r of GT500. After the dismise of r390 GT1, nissan and g-force (with the technical collaboration of courage) built only one open prototype called r391. For the 1999 le mans event, nissan used a courage c52 with the old turbo VRH35L and the new r391 powered by the NA VRH50A that was a heavily revised and modified VHR35 engine design with a larger displacement and without turbochargers. During years the VRH35 powered a lot of nissan race cars and has existed in at least 5 really different versions , but like the VRH50A, the VRH35A/D/E/L/Z, the VRH34A/B and the mclaren/ricardo M838T share the same base. Is a fact not an opinion. If nissan has been able to obtain a NA 5.0 starting from the same base of a turbo 3.5 design, mclaren automotive could do it as well if find some good technical partner. (the prefix VRH is for V the v shape, R for racing and H as the 8)

a good article about the r391
http://www.motorsportsalmanac.com/ma.../RN_030702.pdf

[Maelochs]

Great article, but it does seem to say that the 5-liter is Not an expanded version of the 3.5:

“Nissan tackled Le Mans this year with a brand new chassis and a brand new engine.

“Produced in Japan, the VRH50A is a completely new design, specifically for racing, Ishikawa confirms. Intended also to form the basis of a new generation IRL engine for the marque, it adopts the bore spacing, the block height and the (90 degree) bank angle of the Nissan Infiniti Q45 luxury road car V8, as does the current Nissan IRL engine.” (emphasis added.)


Seems the 5-liter (and the 3.5 IndyCar engine) were not based on the old Group C 3.5, but the 4.5 street engine specs.


Not saying anyone is wrong, just my reading of the article. This is the first I have heard of any of this.


Great article, wish I could access the rest of the site.