Canadian Grand Prix Dumped (merged)?

[fast95pony]

Good one eatapc !!
Perhaps we could get our dynamic,forceful,smart,enterprising Prime Minister to get the Montreal race back on track....
Ah wait , sorry .For a minute I forgot what country I live in...

[Liz]

Meanwhile, the same Nannies who have destroyed the Montreal race to save you poor helpless babies from yourselves are now filing lawsuits to remove Oreo cookies from the helpless hands of addicted babies ... and Google it if you don't believe it ... and have declared their intention to "Bring down the fast food empire the way we brought down Big Tobacco!" Look at the race cars and the items advertised thereon that are not tobacco related, and amuse yourself by thinking of a way some cynical lawyer can stampede a bunch of hysterical ninnies into declaring that helpless babies m ust be defended from its insiduous corruptive influences ... and I guarantee you that at the end of the day you will be left with nothing that is safe for babies to eat, drink, wear, drive or use.

The question is how far are you willing to let them go before you draw a line and say "THAT IS ENOUGH."

Not one single life will be saved by kicking the Montreal Grand Prix off the F1 calendar. But considering all the money that will be removed from the Quebec economy thereby, I'd be willing to guess that a lot of lives will be lost when there is no money for the subsidies that are saving peoples' lives. But of course you, safe in another country far away, don't have to worry about that. You can fold your hands and say "Well, it's too bad all those people had to die, but it's for their own good, after all."

Flee to the uttermost ends of the earth and live without tobacco if you want to. But stop trying to save me from myself.

[Tristan]

People moan when I rant on about how much I loathe the concept of a GP in Bahrain/Moscow/Shanghai.

THIS IS WHY.

The rumours surrounding Montreal have their roots in tobacco advertising, sure, but it's all about a limited calendar (that the teams do not want to see expanded any more than its current bloated state) and China NEEDING a GP to fuel its cigarette chuffing population.

It's too late to cry "stop the Chinese GP", but it isn't to late to whinge about the prospect of one in Bahrain, so....


STOP THE BAHRAIN GP.

[Woolley]

Am I the only one that thinks this is not really about tobacco, but about power? Bernie give £2m to the Labour party with a condition they don't talk about it. He pulls the Belgian GP because of tobacco laws, the government change the law. He's apparantly doing the same in Canada, and he's being feted by tobacco friendly Arab and Asian countries who are prepared to put mega dollars into the track. Silvertsone's problem, I'm sure, is purely that the government hasn't put public money into the circuit.

Yes folks, Bernie is more powerful than your elected government. Tobacco is merely an excuse to prove it.

In my opinion, of course.

[JohnSSC]

So Liz, if I am following your rant properly, I, who live in another country am somehow responsible for public subsidy money that won't be available because there won't be a Formula 1 race in Montreal??

At risk of belaboring this point, there really is no way (and you can Google this one) that the income generated by any F1 race would "save" a local economy or government. Please demonstrate factually (that is, using real dollar figures) how this would be so.

You continually react emotionally to the loss of "your" race without being able to support a single one of your points. No one - not even the government you may or may not have participated in electing - has stated that banning adverts at this particular event would save lives. The point is to ban ALL of the adverts INCLUDING this particular sacred cow so that individuals are not persuaded through glitzy adverts to take up a habit that is difficult to break due to the addictive nature of the product.

The money that comes from that race does not go directly into government coffers - except as whatever sales or VAT taxes are added on. Further, there is a cost to the City, and therefore the Province to stage the race in infrastructure support. How far ahead does the Province come out after all is said and done?

So your contention now is that if the race does not occur because advertising for a known health risk is banned, the public welfare will be jeopordized because there will be less money coming in to aid those who have gotten sick from using the product. Further then you are trying to say that advertising for a known harmful product should be encouraged so that more people will use the product and eventually, get sick.

You have a rather myopic vision of this situation and I think your vested interest in protecting your press credentials for this event blinds you to the long-term risks that occur through the use of this product. You then go about denigrating anyone who dares to have an opposing viewpoint by calling us "nannies" or some such. You have made that reference multiple times, I feel it is directed to me or anyone who dares to disagree with you. No matter how many posts you may have here, your opinion really should not carry the additional weight to allow you to paint others who hold a different view in a derogatory manner. If you disagree, that is fine, it is your privilege to do so. If you cannot discuss the point without name-calling then you shouldn't be on the forum doing so.

[bdhansen]

I'm a twenty-one year old Canadian male, and this year my room-mates and I went to Montreal (not my first time). We had second row seats on the entrance to the hairpin. There is a good pic of us on the BMW Willaims web page. We ate out, went to the clubs, the casino, and all of the support races. The whole city comes alive for the weekend. The normal separation felt between the french and english (though not strong in Montreal) completly goes away for the weekend. Everyone is there to enjoy the race, and the events around it. Getting to the race is easy. Montreal is beautiful, and the people are great. It was the best weekend I remember ever having. It will be sad if we can't go again, and were forced to go to indy to see the boys bog out in the infield and mearly cruise around the banks. Having CART at montreal helps a little, but I doubt we will be skiping our exams to go cheer on Paul and Patrick. The city hardy notices when CART is in town. Just as indy just gets a little crowded when the F1 race is on. Not having the money will hurt the local economy, small businesses will fall, and people will lose their jobs. This is Canada though, and the goverment will always support the people. If that means going into dept, then thats what it will take. SARs hit the Toronto economy hard, and one case mad cow in Alberta closed US beef exporting, but the economy will bounce back. I don't feel sorry for Montreal, I feel sorry that I have to watch the race at indy next year. As for Tabbaco, someone should realize that the names on the cars don't mean very much here. Most smokers here won't reconize West, and Lucky Strike, and even fewer would be caught dead with a pack of Marls. B&H would stand to lose a bit, but it's not like Player's is still advertizing in F1. So is bernie trashing Montreal for tobacco? Maybe, but I think thats only part of it. Not having montreal will help the struggling CART series, which bernie would like as a feeded series to get some americans into F1. It also means that it opens the doors for events in bigger markets (ex china, and possibly a second US GP). The tobbaco issue, is just a excuss in my mind. Bernie is wrong a lot of the time, but he knows his money, and he knows that I'll drag myself to indy just to give him more.

[Mark Mitchell]

The plot thickens over the future of the Canadian Grand Prix.

First the race promoter holds a press conference announcing the race has been axed - then Bernie responds by saying it was news to him - and now the race organisers appear to agree with him.

The latest instalment came in a statement that read, "The Grand Prix of Canada has not received any notice setting aside the decision of Formula One Management concerning the inclusion of the event on the 2004 World Championship calendar."

However they did point out that the race could easily be dropped owing to Canada's ban on tobacco advertising.

"If the intention of Formula One Management was to include the event on the calendar, it would signify as a matter of fact that Formula One agrees to run in Montreal while respecting the tobacco legislation of Canada and Quebec."

You could be forgiven for being confused.

That Canada could lose the race is certainly possible. With Bahrain and China, and now Belgium, all on the slate for next season it is inevitable that GPs will be dropped.

Austria has gone and San Marino looks to be going.

:confused: :confused:

[zootv]

If would be disastrous if they drop Montreal. It was truly my favourite race of the year. It's a magic track.

[Jay]

I think Woolly has it. This has nothign to do with tobacco adverts. Almost every country in the western world will have the same legislation as Canada has by 2010...in fact, the US, UK and France have had much more restrictive laws until recently. Some Canadians here are using this as an opportunity to dump on a government they don't like. While I'm not a fan of our current govt, this debacle has nothing to do with them - it's about F1 and power!

[cos]

This is 'the' letter which La Presse have published (apparently it was dated June 12th):

"We write to advise you that the Canadian Grand Prix will not be included on the 2004 FIA Formula One World Championships calendar pending the outcome of various issues.

"In the event that the Canadian Grand Prix is not included in the calendar for next year the provisions of clause 26.2 of the promoters agreement will apply."

But... this letter was from FOM, and NOT Bernie, which is what Norman Legault the race promoter claimed. Strange...

[eatapc]

Originally posted by cos
this letter was from FOM, and NOT Bernie

Is Bernie just playing games, or was he really not aware that his own company was canceling F1 races without telling him. A little of both?

[EERO]

Originally posted by eatapc

Bernie and Max should let the sponsors themselves decide whether they can live with the restrictions imposed by the laws of most Western nations. As Jay pointed out, it's a done deal as far as removing tobacco sponsorship from sports worldwide. Bernie knows that tobacco money will dry up in a few years anyway, so he's trying to maximize his profit in the short term at the expense of a smoother transition to other sponsors.

The emphasis is mine, but its what I've been saying for ages. Given that the worldwide ban is now just a few years away, they are throwing away a tradtion of a great race with large enthusiastic crowds and the ambiance of a great city for races in places with no motorsports tradtion and no amenities for international fans. My mind reels at the shortsightedness of this decision.

I've been fortunate enough to attend the last four races in Montreal and I had nbeen looking forward to taking my son. Well, its the "cosmopolitan" metropolis of Indianapolis next year-so much for Veille Montreal. (See you at the "Olive Garden", eatapc! )

[eatapc]

Originally posted by EERO
Well, its the "cosmopolitan" metropolis of Indianapolis next year-so much for Veille Montreal. (See you at the "Olive Garden", eatapc! )

Let's do something more exotic -- the Outback Steakhouse!

[eatapc]

Latest from Atlas F1 -- prank call smokes out Bernie:

Formula One's commercial rights owner, Bernie Ecclestone, confirmed last night that the Canadian Grand Prix will not be included in the 2004 calendar, when he fell victim to a prank call made by a Montreal radio station.

A radio DJ contacted Ecclestone, leading the F1 supremo to believe he was talking to Canada's Prime Minister, Jean Chretien. The prank conversation was aired on the CKOI radio station, as the debate over the future of the Canadian Grand Prix continued to rumble on following the organiser's announcement that the race would be dropped in 2004.

Ecclestone denied the story last week and said next year's calendar was yet to be decided. But in yesterday's radio call, Ecclestone left little doubt that next year's calendar will not include Montreal, unless a solution was found to allow Formula One cars to run with tobacco advertising. Legislation banning any form of tobacco advertising, including logos on F1 cars, will come into effect in Canada on October 1st 2003.

"We had a beautiful relationship with [Canada] over the years, and I was hoping...we were going to continue with that exemption," said Ecclestone. "When I was informed it stopped, then that put us in a very difficult position, obviously.

"We're not trying to blackmail you...believe you me. We have enough people that want races there, it's not that. We love Canada, we love Montreal - everybody's happy. [But] We always try to honour whatever we agreed to."

Ecclestone said the best solution for the problem was "to carry on the way we were" - allowing cars to run with tobacco livery - so that "certain teams could compete without losing a large amount of money."

[Jay]

Sounds like one of the big-box store malls they have in the suburbs here...

[Mr V]

well, it's been confirmed.......

from www.autosport.com

Bernie Ecclestone has finally confirmed that the Canadian Grand Prix has been axed from the Formula 1 schedule for 2004 because of new Canadian anti-tobacco legislation.

Race promoter Norman Legault announced last week that the Montreal-based race had been dropped from next year's calendar, although this was initially denied by F1 impresario Ecclestone. But a statement released by his company, Formula One Management, now confirms the fate of the race.

"I can confirm that a letter was written to the Canadian race promoter following a meeting I had with him when I informed him the Canadian round of the FIA Formula 1 Championship would not be included in the 2004 calender," read the statement.

"The reason for this is that the Canadian government has brought into effect a total prohibition on tobacco-related sponsorship. There is a provision in our contract with the race promoter that should this become effective, we have the right not to include their event in the calendar for the relevant year.

"Our problem is quite simple. The F1 teams with tobacco-related sponsorship lose part of their revenue when a certain percentage of the events ban tobacco sponsorship. This was the reason the Belgian Grand Prix was not included in the 2003 calendar.

"One thing is for sure – everyone is sorry to lose the Canadian race as we all love Montreal and the warm support the city has always given Formula 1."

So, why did Bernie even deny that a letter had been sent, just makes himself look silly

[Omega99]

What?!?!? Bernie made himself look silly??? You can't be serious!

But you'd think such a successful billionaire would have a better eye for making good business decisions. This proves that's not the case. They're fighting to keep the F1 race (the Quebec/Canadian governments, that is) so it's not over yet.

[sgjb]

As I have mentioned before he is a loser. Now a lying loser.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/autoracing/...814_134849_4444

Sad that they feel the fans can be treated this way. The best North American market is now gone. Bernie forgets who helped get him to where he is today.

[kdr]

[i]Sad that they feel the fans can be treated this way. The best North American market is now gone. Bernie forgets who helped get him to where he is today. [/B]

yes...imagine...only one GP in "north america".

i wonder how long that will last..................

[sgjb]

Until the tobacco ban in the US is in place in 2 years?

[Inigo Montoya]

Well, the politicians are going to meet His Berniness to try a last ditch effort to save the GP:

http://www.tsn.ca/auto_racing/news_story.asp?id=51216

Go get em!

[Bononi]

Don't worry, Canadian GP will be safe.

[eatapc]

There's no compromise to work out and nothing to debate. Unless the Canadians are prepared to give Bernie what he wants -- an exemption on the tobacco ad ban -- the Grand Prix will not be back in Montreal next year. I hope the delegation from Quebec can pull a rabbit out, but Tony George at Indy may be the big winner here.

[Inigo Montoya]

Well, their argument is that other races are given excemptions, so why not Canada - one of only two races in the NA market?

[eatapc]

I think Bernie is playing hardball; he's not bluffing. If he can dump Spa, he can dump any race, and if the Canadians think they can reason their way back onto the schedule, their arguments will fall on deaf ears. Bernie wants one thing: a tobacco ad exemption.

Of course, I'd be overjoyed if I'm proven wrong.