Team orders? (merged)

[deeks6]

I forgot one ... just found out that Alex Yoong was contracted to stay behind Alonso and Webber too. He did it better than Rubens - he always stayed a couple of laps behind so that nobody would suspect ...

[Adam43]

Originally posted by Panzer
Boy o boy, some of you people amaze me , me thinks you have too much time on your hands! Get a life!

I'm glad you could spare some time to inform us of this I see you have grasped the nuances of what has been said too (no doubt by reading eveyone's post).

Apart from deeks inspired post it is clear everyone realises RB isn't the driver MS is. While I think Ferrari can do what they want I do see the POV that it is a shame that on the weeekends RB has been better than MS he has had to defer. USGP wasn't really one of those weekends, as MS deserved to be leading after his good restart. I also can see it is a shame that the had to hold station and we didn't have a fight to the end, but as I said, Ferrari can do what they want and it was the sensible thing to do.

Ferrari can do what they want, but it is clear that Ferrari take it further than other teams and sometimes have asked RB to defer when he has driven better than MS. Doesn't happen very often mind, but I think that annoys people more as a missed chance for RB is worth more than too MS. I can see this and would not describe it as whatever is behind those stars.

[Knowlesy]

I hardly think that RB is a superior talent to MS deeks, as if he was he wouldn't have taken the best part of his career to get into a front running car!

But he is capable of outshining MS occasionally!

[Spritle]

Is the Lenny Kravitz quoted at the beginning of this post the Lenny Kravitz of rock music fame? If so, when did he become quotable and knowledgable in regards to F1 and Ferrari? Does he get briefed by the team? Has he actually seen the infamous, "Rubens 2nd bannana clause" in RB's contract?

Did Madonna make any comments as to Ferrari team orders that we should know or care about?

[Super Tourer]

The reference is to Ted Kravitz, who is the pitlane reporter for ITV on UK TV, over time, and in certain circles, that has been transposed into 'Lenny Kravitz' !

LOL

[Knowlesy]

A misunderstanding here....Ted Kravitz of ITV fame is who is actually being referred to.

Mr V is simply just very confused.

[Kicking-back]

[Tye]

I'm sure us racing fans will be subjected to this nonsense until Michael retires. What bothers me is that the fans of Ferrai and Michael Schumacher actually think this is racing. My God! Rubens on very few occasions actually has the car to challenge Michael, so what happens next, he comes up behind Michael and makes half-hearted attempts at passing him to appear to be racing him. It is getting pathetic to say the least, and what is more appalling is that their fans think this is racing.

The 1996 Australian GP was a good example of two team mates actually racing one another.

knowlesy:

'All very nice. But do you agree with it?'

Absolutely not!

'But can you really see them taking each other off?'

I always hear this sentiment and I have to shake my head. Realistically speaking, how many times are two teammates actually going to take each other off the track. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but it certainly wouldn't happen as often as all the Ferrari fans think it would. You'd think that they would be taking each other off all the time by the way they talk.

If you go back to the 1988 season with McLaren you can watch Senna and Prost battle each other with forcefullness and determination. That is what I want to see more of, not Ferrari's two tiered style.


Gt_R:

'Remember Gilles' What happened at that race before he was killed?'

Again, I hear this often. It is completely erroneous of you to compare the tactics of Ferrari during that race and the tactics of the Ferrari team today.

I'll shed some light on that race for you. During tests just before the race at Imola in 1982 the Ferrrai team found their fuel consumption to be a source of concern. During the race at Imola the two Ferraris were marginal on fuel and therefore team orders were given to Villeneuve and Pironi. I see no problem with a team who makes these a decision based on test done prior to this particular race. It would look pretty stupid had they both run out of fuel during the race. I hope you say yes, otherwise there is no hope.

Until the idiot Mini Me actually lets his drivers race during weekends I'm afraid we are all in for more of the same.

Andrew2001...keep up the good work!

Tye

Edit: At request of Tye, to improve historical accuracy

[garcon]

With a post as well argued and eloquent as that Tye it's almost a shame you're so completely misguided!

Do we have to go as far back as 1996 for a good example of two team mates racing each other? You mean with all the opportunities in the last eight years of closely matched McLarens, Williams, Renaults, BARs and others, the team mates haven't been racing each other? Doesn't that kinda contradict your point?

Can you remember a time since Prost and Senna in 1988 that two McLarens have been allowed to race each other? Maybe they're frozen by the fear of taking each other off too?

I still can't understand why people seem to think it's all Michael's and Ferrari's fault that Rubens just can't seem to beat him this season. Rubens has tried just about everything he knows to gain an advantage over Michael, but it simply hasn't worked out. Because he just isn't as good as Michael. No-one is.

[Kicking-back]

The Ferraris are racing each other.

Michael's winning because he's better.

[Adam43]

Yes Michael is winning because he is better.

However Ferrari also have introduced team orders above what other teams do to favour Michael.

That's the way it is there is no problem here.

This is a pointless argument with extreme sides arguing aspects that are irrelevant. IMHO.

In the majority of situations Ferrari do not do anything that is unlike any other team.

However occasional Ferrari have done things that other teams wouldn't do.

And the problem is? Who knows we are in the wishy washey world of who knows.

[Kicking-back]

Good summary, Adam.

[freud]

Well, TGF is better. Period. There's no doubt about it. But he's not winning only because of him being better. His phenomenal record has been made possible by a lot of factors other than him being 'better'.

'Lies, damn lies and statistics'... if anyone believes that statistics proves the worth of any sportsman, than imho s/he is wrong. And speciallly in a sports like formula-one where the machinery plays the bigger part in success than the driver. Infact its a saying in f1 that you can only give as much as the car under you. MS has been extremely lucky in that he's always worked with great engineers and a consistently good package.

And finally, if you think what's been happening at Ferrari at all these years is not a big deal than imho you are just plain wrong. I am not a MS fan, yet I appreciate his driving skills. I do expect the same from MS fans also. They should also accept the fact that he's been favored tremendously by Ferrari to the extent that is unprecedented in formula-one history. I dont think he would've broken all the records, that he did without the support he got.

He's a good driver and one damn lucky guy.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by knowlesy


Mr V is simply just very confused.

Not exactly difficult is it

Sorry to all who got confused after my little joke! They are of course, totally different people, although i have it on good authority that the real Lenny Kravitz, has been known to talk exitedly, and what he says is total B*****ks, and that the real Ted Kravitz does a mean version of "it ain't over till it's over" followed by "are you gonna go my way" on the karaoke in the Cabin bar, post Suzuka race