[Team] Aston Martin Racing in 2023. One of the cars still has Alonso.

[Go Harder.]

And just to be safe, reverse engineer 800 development drawings and keep them for a rainy day

[ascarracinguk]

Tbh I’d have thought Ferrari would be spending their time reverse engineering the HAAS to get a bit quicker rather than wasting time protesting Racing Point....

[wnut]

Originally Posted by S griffin

This is getting ridiculous. Maybe Ferrari need to focus on their own cars instead of trying to find someone else responsible for their failings. And McLaren are doing well enough to not resort to protests

If you can't beat a clone of a rival's previous year's car, perhaps you don't belong in F1?

[crmalcolm]

If Mercedes felt something on the ferrari was a breach of regulations, should they ignore it because they are doing well?

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by wnut

If you can't beat a clone of a rival's car, perhaps you don't belong in F1?

Using this logic, we might as well cut off the majority of the grid.

Also, this is an insane way to judge how a team belongs in F1. Especially given the history of the sport.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

If Mercedes felt something on the ferrari was a breach of regulations, should they ignore it because they are doing well?

Being a Concorde negotiating year then perhaps they have other reasons to, or not to, protest.

I suspect BE would have been making side deals and offering terms to incentivize keeping quiet but to get that reward a team would first have to raise a stink.

Politics, agendas, and games within games....this season really does have everything!

[S griffin]

5 teams now protesting? Funny how they are only doing it now Renault has successfully protested it

[wnut]

Originally Posted by S griffin

5 teams now protesting? Funny how they are only doing it now Renault has successfully protested it

Nothing like success to bring out the sportsmanship in others!

[tux]

Well they are protesting the actual decision rather than the brake duct issue specifically.

For me its very clear whats happened. Stroll buys Racing Point & invests in Aston Martin, it suits him to run at the front. Aston Martin buy roadcar engines from Mercedes, it suits Mercedes if Aston Martin are running at the front in 2021. Not only that but it gives them extra "defence" against Ferrari & Red Bull.

Its probably not impossible to copy a car by eye from photos but how many times do we here "we cant copy that idea it wont work with our aero package" and "The upgrades dont work". The aero on an F1 car is so finely tuned that teams that design their own car/upgrades often struggle to get them to work how the "computers" suggest they should so forgive me if i struggle to see how someone can "copy" a competitors car and get it to work so well.

Finally id like to add that Mercedes themselves are very tight lipped on the whole issue, almost as if they've taken the stance that Racing Point got themselves into this mess, they're on their own which i find strange because if you didn't do anything wrong and are being unfairly accused you'd scream from the rooftops. Still i doubt anything will come of it, how do you prove it?

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by tux

Well they are protesting the actual decision rather than the brake duct issue specifically.

For me its very clear whats happened. Stroll buys Racing Point & invests in Aston Martin, it suits him to run at the front. Aston Martin buy roadcar engines from Mercedes, it suits Mercedes if Aston Martin are running at the front in 2021. Not only that but it gives them extra "defence" against Ferrari & Red Bull.

Its probably not impossible to copy a car by eye from photos but how many times do we here "we cant copy that idea it wont work with our aero package" and "The upgrades dont work". The aero on an F1 car is so finely tuned that teams that design their own car/upgrades often struggle to get them to work how the "computers" suggest they should so forgive me if i struggle to see how someone can "copy" a competitors car and get it to work so well.

Finally id like to add that Mercedes themselves are very tight lipped on the whole issue, almost as if they've taken the stance that Racing Point got themselves into this mess, they're on their own which i find strange because if you didn't do anything wrong and are being unfairly accused you'd scream from the rooftops. Still i doubt anything will come of it, how do you prove it?

It’s actually really easy to copy a car from photos these days.

Take a look at 3D photogrammetry. I use it for surveying all the time....we can send up drones to take photos, scan stockpiles of muck, buildings etc, import them into CAD and it produces an exact model to within a couple of mm.

As Toto said in his interview yesterday, several leading teams were standing at the front of the Mercedes garage last year with 3D cameras doing the same thing....so it’s not just Racing Point doing this....they just took it to the nth degree....Mercedes aren’t being tight lipped, if you listen to the toto interview he believes RP are legal and the judgment is incorrect.

The reason Renault went after the brake ducts, is because you obviously can’t scan the inside of things....so suspected help from Mercedes. Of course it’s all been explained by RP that they bought that technology in 2018 from Mercedes when it was legal to do so. Interestingly because they used that intellectual property on the front brakes last season when it was a non listed part, it’s only the rear brakes that can be protested.

Simply put, if RP had used the Mercedes brakes on the rear last season...then there wouldn’t be an issue

[chillibowl]

Are Stroll and Wolff not business partners now with Aston?

With the team to be rebranded maybe there is a very different story then the one we perceive being played out.

From a sporting view i dislike all of this but from a business point of view...well i dislike that to but understand it more i guess.

[chillibowl]

Cant say i have heard an owner make a direct statement like this during a race/prerace broadcast before.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

Cant say i have heard an owner make a direct statement like this during a race/prerace broadcast before.

Missed it, can you elaborate?

[ascarracinguk]

Scratch that. Found it. Stroll not pulling any punches. Fair play I say, I hope they don’t buckle and take this further to clear their name

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/s...paign=widget-1

[chillibowl]

Well for sure they have to fight it and for sure this will be a very interesting sideshow.

Dont mess with genuine billionaires. He might actually bring manu level legal resources to bear on this.

I expect this to go on for a while!

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

As Toto said in his interview yesterday, several leading teams were standing at the front of the Mercedes garage last year with 3D cameras doing the same thing....so it’s not just Racing Point doing this....they just took it to the nth degree....Mercedes aren’t being tight lipped, if you listen to the toto interview he believes RP are legal and the judgment is incorrect.

Did these leading teams also take delivery of parts manufactured by Mercedes for profit?

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Did these leading teams also take delivery of parts manufactured by Mercedes for profit?

Since we're being picky - Racing Point did not take delivery of any parts. They got CAD plans to make parts at a point where it was legal.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Did these leading teams also take delivery of parts manufactured by Mercedes for profit?

Not sure I get your point?

Ferrari and red bull have been supplying parts to toro rosso/ haas and other teams for profit for about a decade now

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

Missed it, can you elaborate?

They played the recorded statement (could have been live though but i think pre recorded) on the SKY pre race show.

Maybe they will post the video on their site at some point.

Maybe the official f1 site will post it.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Did these leading teams also take delivery of parts manufactured by Mercedes for profit?

Probably a good time to repost this article.....

https://www.thedrive.com/accelerator/19799/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-haas-f1-ferrari-replica-row

[peebee2]

Back on topic, you won’t get away with the bs practiced in F3 and F4 in F1.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Back on topic, you won’t get away with the bs practiced in F3 and F4 in F1.

How is that back on topic?

Where did we leave the topic?

Do you have a hangover? :-p

[peebee2]

Lol maybe! I meant just that this is familiar but won’t be brushed away this time.

The brake ducts was just an example, there’s a lot more to come.

I feel sorry for the technical team who have worked very effectively under financial constraints for many years to then be told to copy someone else’s drawings.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by peebee2

I feel sorry for the technical team who have worked very effectively under financial constraints for many years to then be told to copy someone else’s drawings.

lol wat.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Lol maybe! I meant just that this is familiar but won’t be brushed away this time.

The brake ducts was just an example, there’s a lot more to come.

I feel sorry for the technical team who have worked very effectively under financial constraints for many years to then be told to copy someone else’s drawings.

Copying has been part of f1 since the start and as toto has said, other leading teams employed the same techniques to copy the merc last year.....just racing point have taken it to the extreme, and in their opinion legally.

I think it’s a master stroke by the team, not only does it help them this year but helps them when the new rules come in.

Do you really think HAAS and Alpha Tauri would have had their results over the last couple of years without buying parts from manufacturers and copying their designs? It’s no coincidence the Haas looks like ferrari and alpha Tauri looks like the red bull.

Let’s not forget it’s not just as simple as taking 3D photos of the car, you can’t directly copy another car, it has to be different, even if those differences are small.