Where were the doctors?/Delay getting to Ralf (merged)

[Stephen Green]

Stu...excellent post, nuff said.

[Alan Green]

Many posts on the thread on the F1 thread regrding this issue, and yes 100 seconds from impact to first on scene was infuriating to watch, as it was to all of us I'm sure.

FIV needed on the unused part of the Oval ready to respond to such incidents in future?

Al.

[mp356a]

Originally posted by BSchneiderFan
Well, I'm happy to go along with David Coulthard (a senior member of the GPDA, after all) when he says that the decision not to stop the race was the correct one. Nevertheless, given that Ralf's condition was unknown and that he was not, unlike Alonso, getting out of the car of his own accord, the delay in getting to him could have been very, very serious. Thank God it was not. Nonetheless my mind went back to Terry Trammell's account of Alex Zanardi's horrific crash at the Lausitzring; Dr Trammell reckoned that by the time they got Zanardi into the helicopter to be taken to hospital in Berlin, he had minutes to live. By the grace of God, Ralf's accident was nowhere near as serious, but in the minutes after he smacked the wall, that was not apparent. He could easily have suffered serious head/neck injuries. The delay in getting medical attention to him was simply unacceptable, and Syd Watkins, I imagine, must be furious. Given the way in which GPs work, responsibility has to lie with race control. What in God's name happened? We need to find out, and make sure it doesn't happen again.

I'm by no means his biggest fan, but get well soon, Ralf.

I agree. I am not a Ralf fan in any way shape or form but I would never wish for him to be injured. All I kept thinking of was Zanardi. If it were that bad, he'd be dead.
Very sad. A disgrace in fact.
I am also amazed that MS did not stop his car. Where have the Vic Elfords gone?
Mike

[Fantasy GP610]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
He wasn't.

In the minute or so between the car coming to a stop and the medics arriving RS certainly DID seem motionless for most of that time.

Sure........ he put his hand up to say he could still hear Sam Michael but how long after this did the medics get to him.

[Ian Smith]

I Agree it seemed an intermable amount of time but I agree with Martin Brundle and Mark Blundell given the size of the pit lane there it would have made sense for the saftey car to lead them through at a resonable pace thereby avoiding both the sight of a stricken car and driver being worked on and also avoiding all the debris and carbon fibre shards that were spread fot several hundred feet along the start/finish straight. As a final comment as ever Prof Sid did his usual superb job once he was on the scene.

[touringlegend]

I have to say I agree with our marshals points of views - you got to remember the drivers are paid millions to risk themselves - I'm afraid if I was a marshal I wouldn't jump onto a live track either to rescue any driver.

[chezza]

I didn't think that Prof Sid was allowed to actually treat anymore as he was getting too old?!

[avsfan733]

I must comment on MSchu saying that he was actually glad that was a concrete wall not a tire wall, I think this is the rare sitauation where that is true causing ralf to bounce/slide off a little bit

[wiggles]

From the sofa it looked like a defo Red Flag incident, but that was from the sofa, not the side of the track. Marshals (like myself) may be daft but they aren't fools. There's no way I would sprint across the track to Ralf's car in that situation, especially since it was off the back off a fast corner with a tonne of debris littering the track.

Even though the red flag wasn't shown, from where I was sitting (with a large beer and a packet of crisps) the marshals did what they were supposed to do. Once the doctors car arrived and the pack was made safe(ish) by the safety car then the marshals took to the track and supported the rescue crews and medics.

All that said and done.... It did look like a red flag situation.

[blue nose]

It still seems to long to wait it was a good job there was no fire..if it can take that long to attend then next year it should not go ahead at that circuit.

[Stuart Hill]

Originally posted by avsfan733
I must comment on MSchu saying that he was actually glad that was a concrete wall not a tire wall, I think this is the rare sitauation where that is true causing ralf to bounce/slide off a little bit

this comment, if it is true, just goes to show how little the current F1 drivers know !!!!!

No 3 hit the concrete at Daytona but died !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is not a question of WHAT you hit, but more a question of the DIRECTION you hit it at.

Maybe some people need to heed certain incidents with a different view?

ie:

WAKE -UP .......FIA !!!!!!!


These are NOT gravel traps, there are SOLID WALLS !!!!!!

GET YOUR FIRST RESPONSE IN THE RIGHT PLACES !!!!!!!!

and don't make an ambulance do half a circuit to find the Med Centre/ Center !!!!!!!!!

[Stuart Hill]

Originally posted by avsfan733
I must comment on MSchu saying that he was actually glad that was a concrete wall not a tire wall, I think this is the rare sitauation where that is true causing ralf to bounce/slide off a little bit

did this comment come from MS, the same MS who sustained a broken leg, after hitting a tyre wall at Silverstone????

and then got the race "Red-Flagged" ??????


If he was so concerned about his brother then............

why did he not stop the race by parking his car alongside his brother's accident???????????

hhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by crazystu
did this comment come from MS, the same MS who sustained a broken leg, after hitting a tyre wall at Silverstone????

and then got the race "Red-Flagged" ??????

Silverstone had been red flagged before MS crashed.

But don't let the facts get in the way of your bashing.

[garcon]

:confused:

Now I'm really confused. Crazystu, what the merry mother of are you talking about?

If you are suggesting that Michael's concern for his brother was in any way not entirely genuine then you're one sick puppy.

[Stuart Hill]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Silverstone had been red flagged before MS crashed.

But don't let the facts get in the way of your bashing.

If that is true then.....

my apologies for any inferencences taken. my mistake.

[Kicking-back]

It is true.

[Stuart Hill]

Originally posted by garcon
:confused:

Now I'm really confused. Crazystu, what the merry mother of are you talking about?

If you are suggesting that Michael's concern for his brother was in any way not entirely genuine then you're one sick puppy.

I'm not suggesting anything............

but would YOU drive past your brother/sibling/person you knew and not stop to help??????

I just hope you never count me as your "friend" as I do not know of any race that would cause me to pass my brother/friend or even person I know in that sort of situation!

Just like certain 'proper drivers', I would have stopped to help.

OK, maybe I would never have won a championship but.....

I would have slept peacefully that and every other night!!

[garcon]

Michael was in constant contact with his team and was genuinely worried with Ralf being in the car for so long, but he was kept informed and knew that his brother was in professional hands. If he had not been assured that Ralf was ok (at least conscious) I don't think Michael would (or could) have continued. He'd have pitted and gone straight to the med centre.

What earthly use would he have been if he'd stopped next to Ralf and got out?!

Alot of people seem to have wildly over-reacted to the events in yesterday's race. Maybe it's time we all stepped back a little and retrieve a grasp on reality.

[Kicking-back]

Well said, Garcon.

[blueflagger]

As stated in another thread, the marshals are not allowed to go onto the front straight without the permission of race control for safety's sake. They were watching Ralf and could see him moving.

I was only listening to one of the three communications networks (and not the primary network) and on the back side of the course so I am unable to say just how quickly rescue units were requested.

I still haven't seen the race tape yet so I won't state an opinion about red/no red flag.

[Stuart Hill]

Originally posted by garcon

What earthly use would he have been if he'd stopped next to Ralf and got out?!

simple answer............

the race would have been stopped and the question of;

"shall we run through the debris or the pit-lane" would never have been raised.

The race would have been stopped and the medics/teams/marshals/ anyone who wanted to would have got there sooner!!!!

who cares about tv times???? get some meds to a driver in distress!!!!

in case anyone has forgotten,..................

we are actually talking about another human being here!!!!

NO !!! I would not have gone to help him from the other side of the track ( 19yrs of marshalling has taught me that!!)

YES I would have wanted to!!!!!

NO !! I do not knock any of the guys on scene for not doing so, but...

If Michael 'HAD' stopped then the race would have been red-flagged and Ralf would have been able to receive some kind of assstance earlier/quicker. Would this have been a bad thing?????

YES!!! it could have screwed-up the tv schedules but.

would any motorsport fan have cared ????? NO!!!

Driver in trouble = Race Shutdown !!

end of story.

[Stuart Hill]

Originally posted by garcon
Michael was in constant contact with his team and was genuinely worried with Ralf being in the car for so long, but he was kept informed and knew that his brother was in professional hands. If he had not been assured that Ralf was ok (at least conscious) I don't think Michael would (or could) have continued. He'd have pitted and gone straight to the med centre.

What earthly use would he have been if he'd stopped next to Ralf and got out?!

Alot of people seem to have wildly over-reacted to the events in yesterday's race. Maybe it's time we all stepped back a little and retrieve a grasp on reality.

did the Marshals or Med Team know this?

[Kicking-back]

Did the marshals or medical team know what?

Your line of argument isn't making much sense.

[garcon]

crazystu, if I understand you correctly, then can I suggest you watch the footage again? By the time Michael passed by Ralf's Williams, the rescue team were already there. If not there, they were already scrambled. Michael stopping - if as you assume that would have led to red flaging the race which by the way I doubt - would have had absolutely no influence on how quickly Ralf was attended whatsoever.

Finally, as k-b asks, did the marshals or med team know what? That Michael was asking after his brother? They'd need to be TOLD????

[Kicking-back]

Michael stopping his car at the scene would have caused a big blockage of the track behind him, delaying the medical crew still further.