Simona's fire & the pathetic attempt to put it out..

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by wnut

I think the real issue is one of proportionality. In the case of a small or controlled fire where the driver is not directly exposed then the preferable course of action would be to put the fire out and stabilize the situation.

With respect, I've been involved with a large fire when two cars ended up parked on top of each other, the top one emptying a full tank of fuel which ignited. It took 16 seconds from ignition to extinguished on that occasion. Putting a person into that fire would not only slow down the process of extinguishing it, but also puts another person in danger - the first rule of incident handling is 'the only thing worse than a casualty is another casualty'. Extinguishing the car fully and quickly should always be the aim. Planning on pulling a driver out reduces the available manpower and risks catastrophically exacerbating other injuries even assuming it is possible. If the driver is trapped or the vehicle is in a postion which makes access difficult you're wasting your time anyway.

[icemachine]

Originally Posted by Woolley

- the first rule of incident handling is 'the only thing worse than a casualty is another casualty'.

Exactly. This is the basis of every First Aid course/Workplace Hazard training I've ever taken. When you arrive on a scene, the first thing to do is secure it so its safe to start First Aid.

[wnut]

Thanks guys I have learned a lot.

The 16 secs sounds amazing Woolley - well done - he was lucky your team was so on the ball!

Hopefully the marshalling will continue to improve - FIA protocols would be good so that you and your kind can share your expertise with the inexperienced, and allow them to identify the short commings of a particular circuit and set up.

I still like the start line exit practice/proof proposed earlier in the thread.

[ascarmarshal]

Most of the PPK (personal protective kit) you see UK marshals wearing have been bought by the marshals themselves. Some of the overalls are subsidized but they are still expensive. During my career (I am inactive at the moment due to a rare medical condition and other factors) I only got given one set of overalls and that was RAC overalls at the GP in either 97/98.

[Piglet]

The John Grant Brands incident recently is probably a good one to add into the mix. An old car (so more relevant perhaps to the Lauda type incidents than any other modern incident) and a driver who was properly trapped.

If you look at the stills - there are some links somewhere - you'll see that the fire was extinguished within seconds, the driver has some burns that I believe to be superficial and was extricated over a period of 90 minutes in a safe and controlled manner.

In most cases (and there can be no hard and fast rule only well trained, experience and capable marshals who are able to make swift decisions) extinguishing the fire first is best practice leaving the driver to be extricated in a way that is less likely to cause further injury.

Of course there is aways a scenario where the ABC's dictate that a driver needs to be out of the car immediately to maintain life and that would be a different scenario again.