[BTCC] 2024 BTCC Rds. 13/14/15 Oulton Park

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by thetool

But equally you bang on about holding driving standards to an etiquette not seen for over 30 years at this point, and then using your largely irrelevant club racing experience to make claims as to how things should be done. In many ways your both as bad as each other.

That seems a bit rude, or are you just living up to your sign-on name?

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by MarcusH26

Ronan seems to have traded in a whole seasons worth of luck for his maiden win , just seems to be constantly plagued by issues now which is very disappointing. Chilton has been one of the surprises of the season when he has had a car that is actually working properly, not entirely sure what happened to him in Race 3.

Doesn't Chilton have a experienced engineer now?

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Doesn't Chilton have a experienced engineer now?

Barry Plowman

[MarcusH26]

Originally Posted by Evantra

Barry Plowman

Ah ha! That will have helped , I knew Barry went there but didn't know exactly what his role was.

[porsche962fan]

a detail revealed by Jake Hill in qualy interview

the front end is always the same, they only adjust the rear for different tracks, wonder what he means , maybe the found a really good setting for the front and now the don't touch it

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

a detail revealed by Jake Hill in qualy interview

the front end is always the same, they only adjust the rear for different tracks, wonder what he means , maybe the found a really good setting for the front and now the don't touch it

Do you have a transcript - or link to the interview?

[SV8Predator]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

He lost two places,

He lost two places? So that "was taking an unfair advantage".


Please explain.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by SV8Predator

He lost two places? So that "was taking an unfair advantage".


Please explain.

For the third time of writing this, if he had had to drive right up to the top of the circuit to Shell Oils Bend and then driven back to rejoin at the exit of Island Bend, then it is more than likely that the whole field would have then be in front of him. It would have been the same as if he had had to start at the back of the grid.

I really cannot make it any simpler than that, on the assumption that I believed that if a driver entered the track extension - and he had had more than a car's length up the extension - then the driver had to drive along the whole of the extension. And I thought that I made that clear in my first post on the matter.

I can't express myself any clearer.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

For the third time of writing this, if he had had to drive right up to the top of the circuit to Shell Oils Bend and then driven back to rejoin at the exit of Island Bend, then it is more than likely that the whole field would have then be in front of him. It would have been the same as if he had had to start at the back of the grid.

I really cannot make it any simpler than that, on the assumption that I believed that if a driver entered the track extension - and he had had more than a car's length up the extension - then the driver had to drive along the whole of the extension. And I thought that I made that clear in my first post on the matter.

I can't express myself any clearer.

It would be a very bad idea indeed for someone to disappear off down to Shell at full racing speed when the permit for the event doesn't include it. There would be no marshal cover, no fire extinguishers, the cameras wouldn't be monitored etc etc. If they came to grief in some way or the car broke down, then they'd be in a blind spot.

There may have been a time when that was the accepted penalty there, but it hasn't been the case for a very long time now.

[SV8Predator]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

For the third time of writing this, if he had had to drive right up to the top of the circuit to Shell Oils Bend and then driven back to rejoin at the exit of Island Bend, then it is more than likely that the whole field would have then be in front of him. It would have been the same as if he had had to start at the back of the grid.

Bit of a harsh "punishment" just because a driver locks his brakes? Why be punished for that at all? Especially as he certainly did not gain an advantage, the exact opposite in fact.


I'm glad you're not Clerk of the Course!

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

a detail revealed by Jake Hill in qualy interview

the front end is always the same, they only adjust the rear for different tracks, wonder what he means , maybe the found a really good setting for the front and now the don't touch it

Going back to his S2000 days, Colin always used softer setups than the likes of Collard / Jelly etc. I wonder if the BMW car has evolved to a point where actually a stiffer setup generates more laptime and this isn't working to the benefit of Colin.

[Mike Harte]

Thank you, Graeme, at last a voice of reason. All I did was pose the question because I had believed that the rules, certainly in the past, had meant that a driver was required to complete the extension. Based solely on my erroneous belief, I then made the comments that I did.

Half the problem here appears to be that too often posters don't read and fully understand what others have written, and then just go on the attack.

And in answer to the member who thinks that driving standards (which I also equate to etiquette because we are surely not animals) from thirty years ago should have no bearing on current driving in motorsport, why on earth not? And I would posit that the Redex Championship that I contested so many years ago had nearly as much importance for spectators and fans as the current BTCC. I accept that it didn't have the same media attention as we have now, but then the forerunner of the BTCC, the BSCC, certainly didn't either as it only was really just part of the programme for larger international events.

Just because I am old and crusty doesn't mean that I am not entitled to my views, or that my opinions may actually have some validity.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I had believed that the rules, certainly in the past, had meant that a driver was required to complete the extension.

I have a recollection that this was once the case too - I have been unable to find where this was in the regulations though.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I have a recollection that this was once the case too - I have been unable to find where this was in the regulations though.

I think I remember Turkington doing it, in the Volkswagen CC possibly, around all the medical vehicles - not sure whether that was to follow the rules or just not being able to slow the car down enough to avoid it.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Do you have a transcript - or link to the interview?

5.15
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxXBIAI0pMw

wonder what the "magic tool" is

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Evantra

I think I remember Turkington doing it, in the Volkswagen CC possibly, around all the medical vehicles - not sure whether that was to follow the rules or just not being able to slow the car down enough to avoid it.

https://youtu.be/b9_AuhQ2NH4?si=nT5q7NxrMGRvOFPa&t=122

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

5.15
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxXBIAI0pMw

wonder what the "magic tool" is

Thanks for the link. I think the 'tool' is experience.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

https://youtu.be/b9_AuhQ2NH4?si=nT5q7NxrMGRvOFPa&t=122

That’s it! (what on earth was Alex Martin doing!)

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

For the third time of writing this, if he had had to drive right up to the top of the circuit to Shell Oils Bend and then driven back to rejoin at the exit of Island Bend, then it is more than likely that the whole field would have then be in front of him. It would have been the same as if he had had to start at the back of the grid.

I really cannot make it any simpler than that, on the assumption that I believed that if a driver entered the track extension - and he had had more than a car's length up the extension - then the driver had to drive along the whole of the extension. And I thought that I made that clear in my first post on the matter.

I can't express myself any clearer.

I gather drivers were told explicitly not to do that

[Sodemo]

In the past all the teams trucks were parked up around the Shell hairpin, I am not sure if they do that these days...?

[coffinpilot]

Originally Posted by Evantra

That’s it! (what on earth was Alex Martin doing!)

Trying to send Lines 'To the Future?'

I'll get my coat.

[Mike Harte]

This whole drama comes about from my initial post on the matter, and if some people had bothered to read and fully digest the whole posting, then they would immediately realise that I was seeking clarification from someone with better knowledge about something that I thought that I recalled from the past; I will highlight the important bits in red:

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Someone who is better acquainted with the rules may be able to answer this, but I always thought that if a driver even unintentionally drives even a few feet of the extension of a track, such as at Island Bend where it carries on to Shell Oils hairpin, then the driver must keep going up to to end before coming back and re-joining at the exit of the Island Bend. I thought that I have seen this done in previous years.

I ask because in race 1, Hill locked up completely and had travelled at least a car's length onto the track extension before he drove over the grass before re-joining Island Bend.

I think that that was taking an unfair advantage over all the other drivers in that race.

I don't believe that I could have made it any clearer that I was asking for help to clarify the matter. And as others have pointed out, they also seem to recall that that rule used to exist.

What is so hard to understand; it's all in plain English?

[SV8Predator]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

What is so hard to understand; it's all in plain English?

What I find "hard to understand" is why you think Jake Hill benefitted from this perceived "unfair advantage"? So please explain how he benefitted? He made a mistake, lost two places. How did he gain an "unfair advantage" from this? How did it affect the race result?

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Just because I am old and crusty doesn't mean that I am not entitled to my views, or that my opinions may actually have some validity.

To certainly ARE entitled to your views, but what you must realise is that others are also entitled to their views.

[v8supes]

There are still 15 races left, im not sure 50 points is unassailable. The lack of pace that Turkington seems to show at times compared to Ingram, Sutton is probably a bigger issue

[auroan]

Originally Posted by thetool

But equally you bang on about holding driving standards to an etiquette not seen for over 30 years at this point, and then using your largely irrelevant club racing experience to make claims as to how things should be done. In many ways your both as bad as each other.

Where as Mike is a retired club racer... I'm a current one. And none of this experience is irrelevant. The guys in the BTCC and us Clubbies have to follow exact same track rules. Sporting regs may differ between series... But the only really difference between me and a BTCC driver... is how much money we bring to the table, (and maybe talent as well)