|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
21 Jun 2004, 23:55 (Ref:1011512) | #101 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,043
|
Well, I must admit that if JAG's argument means taking a back step, eliminating all the electronic aids, returning to slicks and reducing downforce and horse power, I agree whole heartedly. I have stated more than once that F1 must take a stand when it comes to technology ... and the time is very near. We do not want cars driven remotely, obviously, but it is getting precariously close to exactly that .... unfortunately nowadays one minor flaw in the overall setup formula (such as a failing tire) can easily result in a shunt similar to Ralfs. I guess the trick is to keep a balance where the best drivers can prevail and the techno geeks remain satisfied. Not an easy task since (too) many F1 fans, no matter what, want technology to rule!
|
|
|
22 Jun 2004, 00:06 (Ref:1011521) | #102 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,538
|
Quote:
Marshals and trackside workers take instruction directly from Race Control.... The first thing they have in mind is their own safety... The second thing is the safety of their fellow marshals.. Thirdly is the driver.... A marshal jumping the wall or climbing through the fence BEFORE the race had been neutralised would have most likely become another casualty.... Having a single car incident turn into a triage situation isn't going to benefit anybody.. If anyone is in line for critisism then it must be Race Director NOT marshals,Medics and such like... |
||
__________________
If your not confused......You dont know whats going on... Diesel..........The fuel of the future |
22 Jun 2004, 00:40 (Ref:1011551) | #103 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 639
|
Jag while I do agree with some of your points you seem to have missed a point.What caused this in the first place?
Did Ralf overcorrect an error? Did he have a tyre that was going flat? Did the suspention fail? Given the serverity of the crash F1 designers must be praised for the strenght of the cockpit.For Ralf to walk away with minor injuries says the system works. The point I want to make is it is not only the aero package that makes these things so fast.F1 designers are constantly looking for ways to improve the performance of the car.Part of that process is lighter and supossedly stronger componants for suspentions. When the FIA introduced wheel theathers it increased the weight of the wish bones by 60grams.Doesn't sound much does it.To an F1 engineer you may as well say 10 kilo's. By increasing the weight of the wish bone it affected the car in a couple of ways.1.increased fuel consumption(F1 cars tread a fine line with this anyway)2.more stress on the rest of the system due to increased weight. The answer find a lighter product to make the wish bones from.The result has been that if a driver (ie MS) is careful when on the limit and doesn't bounce off every corner all will be fine.Treat the car badly and the suspention will fail. The FIA as well as the designers have to shoulder the blame here.The designers for creating the problem and the FIA for compounding it by introducing parc ferme.Maybe its time parc fime was abbandoned and the cars returned to there repective garages after each stage of a GP.Surly the FIA can find a way to ensure no-one plays with an engine. The Grumpy1 Last edited by grumpy1; 22 Jun 2004 at 00:41. |
|
|
22 Jun 2004, 00:44 (Ref:1011552) | #104 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 639
|
Quote:
The Grumpy1 |
||
|
22 Jun 2004, 00:46 (Ref:1011555) | #105 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,885
|
I think Sam Michael has said it was a rear puncture - which at 180/190mph would have pitched him into the spin, possibly via the apron.
|
||
__________________
"Never pick a fight with an ugly person, they've got nothing to lose." |
22 Jun 2004, 00:47 (Ref:1011557) | #106 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 729
|
Quote:
Quote:
One safety issue we haven't much discussed yet is the danger from carbon fiber shards puncturing tires. Isn't that the main lesson to be learned from the Indy accidents? The problem of higher cornering speeds is statistically very small compared to the hazard of carbon fiber debris. |
|||
|
22 Jun 2004, 00:48 (Ref:1011558) | #107 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,538
|
I cant comment on that one Grumpy.....
That would have been the best situation..... It may have been difficult to impliment immediately tho with teams siezing the moment (apart from B.A.R) and making a pit stop under yellows... For sure it would have made things easier tho |
|
__________________
If your not confused......You dont know whats going on... Diesel..........The fuel of the future |
22 Jun 2004, 03:32 (Ref:1011598) | #108 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,540
|
If there is any overreaction in this thread, it is the response that has been shown to JAG raising the issue of containing F1 speeds, from what I've read so far. I think the proposed Mosley changes show that one of the concerns they are looking at when framing future rules is overall speed of the cars.
I would say that part of the entertainment appeal of F1 is setting of new lap records, but surely this should not be a given each year at every circuit, it should be an achievement. As JAG illustrated earlier there have been large gains in lap times in the last 5 years which is unsustainable. Yes the cars are stronger than ever but why negate those safety concerns by raising speeds? I'm sure prior to Imola 94 people were saying "F1 is safe, look at the big shunts we've had and the drivers have survived, that would never have happened in the past". No one is saying make the cars crawl around the circuit, just that the speed increases in the last few years have overwhelmed the measures introduced to contain them. Last edited by johnh875; 22 Jun 2004 at 03:33. |
||
|
22 Jun 2004, 06:22 (Ref:1011630) | #109 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,917
|
Yes, lap records are now broken not because somebody drove better than the previous years, but because cars are improving at such terrifying pace.
I would think that unfortunate as it may be, single tyres is one of hte most effective ways to curb this problem. I know this sounds silly, but maybe a single tyre manufacturer can produce a single type of tyres (maybe two or three types, controlled by FIA), and if other tyre manufacturers are eager to "advertise" in f1, they can make a commercial deal to replace the "brand" on the tyres. In any case, one must be impressed with the safety of modern cars.. We have MS's accident at Silverstone in 99, Burti's in Spa, Diniz at Nurburgring, Giancarlos at Monaco, Ralf's at Indy, the huge T-bone at Austria... and a few more...yet all the drivers walk away without fatality.. |
||
__________________
Alonso: "McLaren and Williams are also great racing teams, but Ferrari is the biggest one that you can go to." |
22 Jun 2004, 13:45 (Ref:1012096) | #110 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,035
|
I guess if the drivers want to be totally safe, they should take up Dominoes or crazy golf!
|
||
__________________
DILLIGAF DIGAF DIF |
22 Jun 2004, 20:19 (Ref:1012543) | #111 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 605
|
ohh dear has this argument not been put to bed yet lads. It is pretty petty don't you think, i mean Ralph is fine.
|
||
__________________
"Sky has closed in,........and yet again we have challenging, and changable conditions for the drivers" (Martin Brundle Hungry 2011, the weekend of the sky deal confirmation) |
22 Jun 2004, 20:29 (Ref:1012551) | #112 | |
Registered User
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,661
|
Ralf is fine.
But there is a serious debate to be had about cornering speeds - and it was going on long before this accident. |
|
|
24 Jun 2004, 09:18 (Ref:1014314) | #113 | ||
Rookie
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 24
|
I remember watching an Indy 500 a couple of years ago where they introduced a special safety wall that lined the entire first corner inside the concrete wall and has been used since. Why is this not used in the F1 race?
|
||
|
24 Jun 2004, 09:20 (Ref:1014319) | #114 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,979
|
Wouldn't have been much use because he crashed into the wall right after the first corner?
Last edited by ASCII Man; 24 Jun 2004 at 09:20. |
|
|
24 Jun 2004, 10:35 (Ref:1014375) | #115 | |
Registered User
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,661
|
That "SAFER" barrier stops shortly before (after on the oval) the point Ralf hit.
|
|
|
24 Jun 2004, 18:22 (Ref:1014953) | #116 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,892
|
I'm kind of on a tangent here, but there is one big problem, and this goes back to the beginning of the thread. Yes, how slow is "safe," but more importantly, at least in modern society, seems to be the most important rule of mass media. Always give the people what they want. It's a sad reality in this instant, but a sport, even F1, won't matter much if no one (relative terms here) watches.
Back to the point at hand. Yes, the barrier ought to be extended further so that the next guy doesn't hit the concrete. Another thought, why not have marshalls (and perhaps a few medical personnel) stationed along pit wall so that if an accident happens there again, someone can get out to it more quickly, and hopefully better assess the situation sooner? |
||
__________________
The only certainty is that nothing is certain. |
24 Jun 2004, 23:33 (Ref:1015371) | #117 | |||
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 378
|
Quote:
Anyone know if F1 uses it or something similar? Ted |
|||
|
24 Jun 2004, 23:39 (Ref:1015377) | #118 | ||
Registered User
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,661
|
Quote:
|
||
|
25 Jun 2004, 08:19 (Ref:1015633) | #119 | ||
Rookie
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 24
|
I guess my point wasn't really the positioning of the safety wall in the Indy 500, although it did extend beyond the exit of turn 1 to catch similar incidents, given that the F1 race is in the opposite direction you would think that the same considerations could be made for the exit of turn 13 if the safety wall was use. It just seems that if the option was available to the organisers, why didn't they use it?
|
||
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
should driver aids be banned?/FIA Considers Driver Aid Clampdown | wayne brookes | Formula One | 46 | 5 Jan 2003 20:00 |
The differenc between a good driver and bad driver, is it all in the head?. | Raoul Duke | Formula One | 26 | 26 Apr 2002 08:12 |
The quest of finding the greatest driver of eras using objective driver comparisons | Joe Fan | Motorsport History | 4 | 22 Jul 2001 02:07 |