Toyota/Rebellion Racing - Le Mans/ILMC/LMS - 2011 (merged) - Page 5

old man · 19 Nov 2009, 10:22 (Ref:2584910)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

..and more importantly, their indigenous signature technology. Those engines came from Japan. To say the Mazda win isn't a Japanese win, well then how do you handle all the wins where the team or driving crew wasn't homogeneous? Everyone acknowledges the Mazda win as a Japanese win, and rightfully so. So would one take away Nissan's 1992 Daytona 24 win (take it away as a Japanese win)? The chassis' origins were English after all...

Er..... yes but as I recall the engine was originated by a Mr Wankel (?spelling) and developed by Mazda

CTD · 19 Nov 2009, 10:51 (Ref:2584931)

Quote:

Originally Posted by old man

Er..... yes but as I recall the engine was originated by a Mr Wankel (?spelling) and developed by Mazda

Yes the Wankel engine is made by Felix Wankel (a german), who made the engine for NSU (Audi) back in '57. The concept was sold to others, but abandoned by all except Mazda, who perfected the concept, so therefor it can be called "their technology".
source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wankel_engine

Japanese Samurai · 4 Dec 2009, 14:18 (Ref:2593991)

I'm very disappointed with Toyota.

Toyota Motorsport sheds 500 German jobs after Formula 1 exit
http://www.monstersandcritics.com/ne...Formula-1-exit

CTD · 4 Dec 2009, 14:21 (Ref:2593993)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

I'm very disappointed with Toyota.

Toyota Motorsport sheds 500 German jobs after Formula 1 exit
http://www.monstersandcritics.com/ne...Formula-1-exit

Sounds like no TTE supported Toyota LMP!

picchiofan · 4 Dec 2009, 14:30 (Ref:2593997)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

I'm very disappointed with Toyota.

Toyota Motorsport sheds 500 German jobs after Formula 1 exit
http://www.monstersandcritics.com/ne...Formula-1-exit

Why?

Are you surprised?

I'm not sure I understand the very peculiar mentality on this board that seems to think when a manfacturer pulls out of the largest motorsport series in the world due to budget issues, that they're then going to enter and develop a car for a series/race that requires almost the same budget, but has 1/50th the exposure worldwide, and that's being generous.

TWK · 4 Dec 2009, 16:29 (Ref:2594029)

Quote:

Originally Posted by picchiofan

Why?

Are you surprised?

I'm not sure I understand the very peculiar mentality on this board that seems to think when a manfacturer pulls out of the largest motorsport series in the world due to budget issues, that they're then going to enter and develop a car for a series/race that requires almost the same budget, but has 1/50th the exposure worldwide, and that's being generous.

The idea that the budget for Le Mans would be similar to, or any more than a pimple on the cost of F1 is wildly off base.

Having said that, I agree entirely with your principal thought: It's getting hope ahead of good sense that leads some to jump to conclusions that fulfill their fantasies.

Although Toyota has harbored in interest in Le Mans racing for a long time, and in fact has had a low-grade design/prototype (in the wider meaning of the word) program almost continually underway, most expect that they will not commit to any "replacement" of their F1 adventure (not matter how small) for at least a year.

Jonerz · 4 Dec 2009, 21:34 (Ref:2594190)

Don't underestimate the world-wide interest in the 24 Hours of Le Mans. It is certainly not as big as F1, but it is a race with world-wide reach, millions of viewers and some 300 000 fans in attendance. Tie that in with the technical reasons to go racing at Le Mans and you have a very attractive package.

Chris

CTD · 4 Dec 2009, 21:39 (Ref:2594195)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonerz

Don't underestimate the world-wide interest in the 24 Hours of Le Mans. It is certainly not as big as F1, but it is a race with world-wide reach, millions of viewers and some 300 000 fans in attendance. Tie that in with the technical reasons to go racing at Le Mans and you have a very attractive package.

Chris

Multiply this with 2, and you have the importance for an Japanese manufacture!
Wining Le Mans, is something very special for the japanese!, so it's very attractive for them.

Jonerz · 4 Dec 2009, 21:50 (Ref:2594206)

Yeah, there is plenty going for Le Mans, and Le Mans racing in general. The American Le Mans Series does have a great hold on the niche market of high performance, high tech, high dollar car fans. So if you are Toyota, where do you spend your advertising and/or R&D budget?

Chris

CTD · 4 Dec 2009, 22:03 (Ref:2594214)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonerz

Yeah, there is plenty going for Le Mans, and Le Mans racing in general. The American Le Mans Series does have a great hold on the niche market of high performance, high tech, high dollar car fans. So if you are Toyota, where do you spend your advertising and/or R&D budget?

Chris

When speaking of the american marked, then a LMP car is much better for Toyota than a F1 car!. There a no races left in the US, and that is one of the biggest markets (if not The biggest) for Toyota, and therefor competing in the ALMS would make good sense!

carsten66 · 5 Dec 2009, 00:39 (Ref:2594276)

Quote:

Originally Posted by CTD

When speaking of the american marked, then a LMP car is much better for Toyota than a F1 car!. There a no races left in the US, and that is one of the biggest markets (if not The biggest) for Toyota, and therefor competing in the ALMS would make good sense!

You are right, but on one hand I think it isn't necessary because Toyota already is involved in the US market with the Nascar series... on the other hand when they in fact leave F1 there will be a need for a compensation of the European markets...

picchiofan · 5 Dec 2009, 12:12 (Ref:2594412)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonerz

The American Le Mans Series does have a great hold on the niche market of high performance, high tech, high dollar car fans. So if you are Toyota, where do you spend your advertising and/or R&D budget?

Chris

Ah yes, the "high end, high performance, high dollar niche performance market". The key bread & butter market for Toyota in the US, one that they service with such cars as the Corolla, 18 different SUVs and pickup trucks, the Lexus GS460, ES330, The Prius, Avalon, Sienna, 7 crossover-things based off the Camry, etc. When one thinks "enthusiast" cars, one definetly thinks "Toyota".

*cough*

Yes, I'm aware they allegedly sell the IS-F in the US. It's been out for 2 years, I've still never seen one on the road.

Toyota has their US presense in auto racing already. It's yellow with a big M&M on the hood.

Jonerz · 5 Dec 2009, 14:53 (Ref:2594463)

Quote:

Originally Posted by picchiofan

Yes, I'm aware they allegedly sell the IS-F in the US. It's been out for 2 years, I've still never seen one on the road.

Must be a difference of where we live. I've seen more than a few. Don't forget the upcoming LSF/LSL. That will be right in the perspective Corvette buyers' wheel house.

Quote:

Originally Posted by picchiofan

Toyota has their US presense in auto racing already. It's yellow with a big M&M on the hood.

Yupp, that is doing plenty to sell the Lexus ISF. But that inn't even a Toyoter! That's the 38 core wit dat cra baby Kal Boosh in 'er! Oh wait, yeah, I see the Toyoter badge... I guess it looks like a Camry. Additionally, take me back to 2006 when Honda/Acura was working on their ALMS program... no way they were going to the ALMS - they already have their US presence, 33 of them run on Memorial Day.

Chris

picchiofan · 5 Dec 2009, 17:18 (Ref:2594507)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonerz

Must be a difference of where we live. I've seen more than a few. Don't forget the upcoming LSF/LSL. That will be right in the perspective Corvette buyers' wheel house.

Pretty big "wheel house" if a 400k car is gonna start pulling away the gold-chain crowd buying 60k vettes.

Quote:

Additionally, take me back to 2006 when Honda/Acura was working on their ALMS program... no way they were going to the ALMS - they already have their US presence, 33 of them run on Memorial Day.

Given that Honda has pretty much pulled all of their involvement out of the ALMS for next year (yea, I know, "HPD" running an old P2 acura), is that really the best parallel to run with?

CTD · 15 Dec 2009, 10:26 (Ref:2600039)

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/n...to-nascar.html
The head line:

Quote:

Dome working on move into NASCAR

Sounds sad, as this could make the Toyota return less likely.
But in the article there is also this section:

Quote:

Dome's advanced S102 LMP1 sportscar also made a rare public appearance at the show, the firm is believed to be developing an all new prototype for Toyota. Interestingly parked alongside the S102 was a Toyota NASCAR Nationwide Series car. Dome's F20 junior prototype was also present.

Could Toyota really be back in Le Mans in 2011!

Japanese Samurai · 15 Dec 2009, 10:43 (Ref:2600056)

It is true that Dome developed the CFRP seat for NASCAR.
This is a business of Dome Carbon Magic.
They try to begin the business that sells the CFRP product by using their carbon technologies.
NASCAR is not a field that can make the best use of their carbon technologies.
Therefore, I don't think that they participate in NASCAR.

Mal · 18 Dec 2009, 09:51 (Ref:2601801)

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...llCars/246038/

Looks like the Toyota at Le Mans may not be until 2012 and may be a GT1 Hybrid.

Fogelhund · 18 Dec 2009, 10:57 (Ref:2601832)

From November 4th, this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

They are looking to run in GT1, around the world with Hybrid technology.

Speed-King · 18 Dec 2009, 11:12 (Ref:2601836)

Hmm - I can't see the SRO being especially keen on manufacturer programs with expensive technology.

I am not saying that this won't happen, but could we see another FIA/ACO-split a few years down the road?

LeMans.pt · 18 Dec 2009, 19:07 (Ref:2602051)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

From November 4th, this thread.

The problem is that the new GT1 World Championship doesn't allow factory teams, unless that they would put they're hybrid technology on privateer hands.

Matador · 19 Dec 2009, 01:29 (Ref:2602191)

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeMans.pt

The problem is that the new GT1 World Championship doesn't allow factory teams, unless that they would put they're hybrid technology on privateer hands.

Pretty sure TOM'S, Cerumo or SARD would be willing to take up the challenge.

deggis · 24 Jan 2010, 18:16 (Ref:2618694)

http://www.lemans.maville.com/sport/...36078_actu.Htm

Pascal Vasselon:

(Google Translation) "We are more than 150 today. The idea is to shift to other activities, to the roots of sports car, more relationship with our customers. We also dedicate time to design. Endurance may be a track of development, the FIA GT and others. The Lexus LFA is a possible basis. Toyota has an undeniable expertise in hybrid. Our SREC system (energy recovery) is operational, for us to take part. But there is no program Le Mans considered."

NightStalk3r · 24 Jan 2010, 18:20 (Ref:2618695)

Quote:

Originally Posted by deggis

But there is no program Le Mans considered."

All Manufacturers say that untill they are ready to announce the project.

R4z3rw33n · 24 Jan 2010, 18:26 (Ref:2618700)

Quote:

Originally Posted by deggis

http://www.lemans.maville.com/sport/...36078_actu.Htm

Pascal Vasselon:

(Google Translation) "We are more than 150 today. The idea is to shift to other activities, to the roots of sports car, more relationship with our customers. We also dedicate time to design. Endurance may be a track of development, the FIA GT and others. The Lexus LFA is a possible basis. Toyota has an undeniable expertise in hybrid. Our SREC system (energy recovery) is operational, for us to take part. But there is no program Le Mans considered."

You may want to take into consideration the fact that a) Rules haven't been finalised as yet, b) Not all potential competitors are confirmed, and c) The Cologne factory is still operational (albeit with reduced number of staff).

It isn't encouraging news, but I wouldn't rule anything out completely.

deggis · 24 Jan 2010, 18:42 (Ref:2618709)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightStalk3r

All Manufacturers say that untill they are ready to announce the project.

That includes an assumption that it is just a matter of time when they do...

Quote:

Originally Posted by R4z3rw33n

It isn't encouraging news

I tried to implicate that with the sad smiley. I'm usually quite optimistic.

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