[BTCC] Round Four, Oulton Park 11-12 Jun, Races 10,11&12

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by redshoes

https://www.barc.net/wp-content/uplo...7-Ash-Hand.pdf
Ash Hand on the naughty step, for going full chat into the scene of an accident.

I was wondering how he went from about 20th to 8th!

[Matt K]

Tom Chilton really is going backwards. There's a gaping hole between him and Ingram& Lloyd... Before the season I hadn't expected him to be on par with Tingram but much more often inside the top 10. He's been once so far...
Sad but it looks increasingly likely that his days in the 'upper middle-pack' are gone for good.

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Tom Chilton really is going backwards. There's a gaping hole between him and Ingram& Lloyd... Before the season I hadn't expected him to be on par with Tingram but much more often inside the top 10. He's been once so far...
Sad but it looks increasingly likely that his days in the 'upper middle-pack' are gone for good.

If only the cocky 18 year old him could see how things have turned out eh?

[Mike Harte]

And he has also been in far too many unnecessary incidents this season that appear to have been caused by him.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by JDMROB

That's one Dan Lloyd will be kicking himself for years for, thinking why oh why did I do that. Probably overtakes the one at Croft a few years back from pole in a Eurotech Honda.

I had nasty visions to Keith O'Dor & Frank Biela from 1995. Very lucky this was more of a frontal impact and not in the drivers door.

It was race 3 at Oulton last year that Ash last dropped points wasn't it? Bogey race.

Im still not convinced by this hybrid system. Is it really making any difference? I don't think it is. Much prefer it to the weight system though, the racing is a bit purer.

All in all a bit of an odd days racing. Chilton and Butel in the other Hyundais really are a let down. Plato puts himself in such silly positions and ends up getting swamped all the time. Its a shame but I do think its age related as much as he says it isn't. That M Sport engine does look down on power in the Honda, however.

Does Josh Cook use a Honda unit? For me the dark horse motor seems to be the Hyundai unit

[BTCC frog]

Originally Posted by redshoes

https://www.barc.net/wp-content/uplo...7-Ash-Hand.pdf
Ash Hand on the naughty step, for going full chat into the scene of an accident.

It was quite amusing to see the contrast between the Power Maxed cars. Michael Crees did the sensible thing of slowing right down and driving a mile off the circuit to avoid the accident and somehow still managed to hit Dan Lloyd, while Hand just didn’t bother slowing down and went charging in, and he made up 14 places.

[JDMROB]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Does Josh Cook use a Honda unit? For me the dark horse motor seems to be the Hyundai unit

No he is doing a great job with the M Sport engine, which some may say is a lacking a bit in a straight line.

Hyundai engine does look tasty, Swindon will be smug if Ingram wins the championship

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by JDMROB

No he is doing a great job with the M Sport engine, which some may say is a lacking a bit in a straight line.

Hyundai engine does look tasty, Swindon will be smug if Ingram wins the championship

Better informed people than me will know but on the TV the Msport motor looked pretty good in Cook, Butcher, Moffat and Thompson cars

[touringlegend]

Can someone tell me why Jade Edwards got the Jack Sears trophy? Hand and Patterson finished ahead of her and the points reflect Hand took the win as well. What did I miss

[Pdh]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

Can someone tell me why Jade Edwards got the Jack Sears trophy? Hand and Patterson finished ahead of her and the points reflect Hand took the win as well. What did I miss

It’s easy she scored 43 points over the 3 races and Hand only scored 40 who was second best points scorer

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

Can someone tell me why Jade Edwards got the Jack Sears trophy? Hand and Patterson finished ahead of her and the points reflect Hand took the win as well. What did I miss

The trophy is for the three races combined, not the last race only.

Oulton Jack Sears Points:

Driver	Points
Edwards	43
Patterson	40
Thompson	40
Gamble	34
Butel	31
Hand	30
Hamilton	28
Osborne	26
Parfitt	16
Powell	11

[steve_r]

Appauling driving stardards. Seems to be a recurring theme of drivers turning into one another along straights, causing unnecessary and very easily avoidable accidents. Stupid.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

They are published to those with access to TOCA technical services. The online versions require an account and are restricted from the general public.

(I trust you don't see this as an "inside knowledge - I know something you don't" type of situation. Just how TOCA do it.)

Sometimes the media will pick up on these and publish some details. Such as back in April when Autosport ran an article detailing the boost increase given to M-Sport engines.

I am not sure which aspect I despair more at, the continuing campaign against RWD performance or the "behind closed doors nature" of how TOCA make these decisions and are then broadcast / disseminated. I know you said its up to news agencies or websites to pick up the story, which is a fair comment, but really they should be doing press releases or making updates on their website for any such decisions (in my opinion).

[Alfisti]

Totally agree. It's basically hidden away. And yes, journalists can of course register for accounts and dig it up but a picture of a wrecked car driven by Richard Head or one of his ilk fills pages and takes significantly less work to do.

Oulton brings out the worst of a significant minority of the current crop of drivers on the package. Last year I walked out and went to the zoo after seeing the mindless cretins in Mini's cause the 732nd red flag of the day. A bunch of monkeys in a cage behaved much better.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Oulton brings out the worst of a significant minority of the current crop of drivers on the package.

Not a defence of their actions, but I think part of the issue is down to the track being too narrow.

Most (if not all) other circuits are at least a metre wider and allow cars to run alongside with more space. The track is so narrow at Oulton Park, that it is comparatively easy to defend. The result of which is that the driver behind will get frustrated sooner, and sometimes the only way they can have any chance of getting past is through an inappropriate shunt.

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Not a defence of their actions, but I think part of the issue is down to the track being too narrow.

Most (if not all) other circuits are at least a metre wider and allow cars to run alongside with more space. The track is so narrow at Oulton Park, that it is comparatively easy to defend. The result of which is that the driver behind will get frustrated sooner, and sometimes the only way they can have any chance of getting past is through an inappropriate shunt.

The track is wide enough to not turn into someone who is alongside you on a straight, which is what happened time and time again this weekend.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by steve_r

The track is wide enough to not turn into someone who is alongside you on a straight, which is what happened time and time again this weekend.

As I said - not defending the actions. A track that was the width of the car would be wide enough to not turn into someone alongside.

Just trying to provide context on why frustrations creep in faster at Oulton Park compared to most other circuits. On those, there is more room for the driver being turned in on to move over further. At Oulton, there is no room for such avoiding actions without going on to (what is usually rough) grass.

[porsche962fan]

Cooky for 2022 champion ? specially as another Thuxton is on the schedule

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I am not sure which aspect I despair more at, the continuing campaign against RWD performance or the "behind closed doors nature" of how TOCA make these decisions and are then broadcast / disseminated.

I know the FIA WTCC (in S2000/TC1 days) didn't always get a lot of love but one thing they did well was to be open. The event page on their website included pre-event BOP changes, every Stewards' decision, as well as the entry list and all the timing data.

At least BARC have now starting publishing Stewards' decisions via their event noticeboard, but the lack of openness for any BOP type adjustments is still an issue. I know there are plenty of fan who think are based on who drops Gow a few quid. Obviously not the case but the lack of transparency doesn't do much to dispel that view.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

Cooky for 2022 champion ? specially as another Thuxton is on the schedule

With over half the meetings still to come, it's far too early to speculate. Sutton is obviously coming to terms with the Ford, Ingram is far happier with his car, Cook is there, as is Turkington plus others. All being fairly close together, all it takes is one bad meeting to completely change the standings.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

Cooky for 2022 champion ? specially as another Thuxton is on the schedule

Maybe, maybe not.

The leader after four events has not always gone on to take the title, but it has been known.

As has been said before - we'll just have to wait and see.

[antnee]

Cooks average scoring per-round is certainly impressive.

[antnee]

Done some number crunching, after 4 rounds we have Cook (169), Ingram (154), Sutton (151), Turkington (140)

In 2021, looking at the final 4 overall, we had Sutton (126), Turkington (89), Cook (95) and Ingram (121). For 2020 the points seemed to be very high Sutton (172), Turkington (182), Cammish (125) and Ingram (123).

Im not sure if any conclusion can be made, other than there is a larger gap this year than previous ones.

[redshoes]

WARNING: Tin foil hat alert

I only got to watch race 3 live. After the big shunt I was was expecting a red flag the race, as there were 3 cars needing clearing and would probably all required a flatbed lift, and potentially some barrier damage. I couldn't work out what they had done to clear the cars so quickly then realised they must have just dragged them back behind hilltop barrier. There would be no protection from a car going off at Cascades but unlikely a car would ever go that far off track.

When the race restarted I expected to be able to see the abandoned cars in the background as the cars went into Hislop's. For some reason the shot from the camera at Knickerbrook seemed odd. It felt like they were using a tighter shot and cutting a different camera earlier, as if they were deliberately making sure that the damaged cars weren't seen.

I've now had chance to watch the first race and some of the support races and those races definitely had a wider angle with a longer shot coming down Hilltop, through Hislops and into Knickerbrook.

Anyone else notice this?

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by redshoes

WARNING: Tin foil hat alert

I only got to watch race 3 live. After the big shunt I was was expecting a red flag the race, as there were 3 cars needing clearing and would probably all required a flatbed lift, and potentially some barrier damage. I couldn't work out what they had done to clear the cars so quickly then realised they must have just dragged them back behind hilltop barrier. There would be no protection from a car going off at Cascades but unlikely a car would ever go that far off track.

When the race restarted I expected to be able to see the abandoned cars in the background as the cars went into Hislop's. For some reason the shot from the camera at Knickerbrook seemed odd. It felt like they were using a tighter shot and cutting a different camera earlier, as if they were deliberately making sure that the damaged cars weren't seen.

I've now had chance to watch the first race and some of the support races and those races definitely had a wider angle with a longer shot coming down Hilltop, through Hislops and into Knickerbrook.

Anyone else notice this?

whats so tin foil hat about them using a tighter camera angle to cut the wrecked cars out of the frame ?

thats just good camera work.
what would be the point leaving some abandonded cars in frame