Nissan LMP1 Discussion

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

Too much discussion on this - I'm told (by those who really do know) its really a done deal - Nissan will be in P1 in '15. Budget sign off is a formality. I believe the car is already in a CAD system somewhere near Wellingborough...

I'll poke my nose around Kettering to see if I can find it there.

Thanks Sam

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

Too much discussion on this - I'm told (by those who really do know) its really a done deal - Nissan will be in P1 in '15. Budget sign off is a formality. I believe the car is already in a CAD system somewhere near Wellingborough...

You know better than that Sam - this is a discussion forum - until those in the know (at whatever level) know the same as those who aren't in the know, then there will be discussion, conjecture and debate.......

[Simmi]

Ok then I'll bite.

If this project comes to pass then who will we see on driving duties?

A while back I tweeted that I'd like to see the prospect of three cars - one with full established pros, the other with GT Academy graduates and a third with Japanese SuperGT talent.

That was retweeted by Darren Cox and Lucas Ordonez. It's a nice dream.

What a story it would be if they could put Lucas and Jann in a P1 car. The ultimate ladder of progression in sportscars. The question is will a third driver emerge as ready in 2014? Who else could be involved? Alex Brundle securing deeper links this season with Nissan is telling. Is Michael Krumm still at the elite P1 level? Let's see.

[NelisB]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Ok then I'll bite.

If this project comes to pass then who will we see on driving duties?

A while back I tweeted that I'd like to see the prospect of three cars - one with full established pros, the other with GT Academy graduates and a third with Japanese SuperGT talent.

That was retweeted by Darren Cox and Lucas Ordonez. It's a nice dream.

What a story it would be if they could put Lucas and Jann in a P1 car. The ultimate ladder of progression in sportscars. The question is will a third driver emerge as ready in 2014? Who else could be involved? Alex Brundle securing deeper links this season with Nissan is telling. Is Michael Krumm still at the elite P1 level? Let's see.

As a young guns team, Mardenbrough, Ordonez and Brundle, sounds really good. They might want to put some SuperGT drivers in another car.

[Rodger Davies]

Aye, I'd say that those three are a shoe-in, and likely the Zeod drivers this year unless Krumm is also involved. It will be interesting to see of the likes of Shultitsky (sp?) and Reip are placed this year.

[Fogelhund]

We should all know by now, that budget sign off by Board of Directors is never a formality... corporate whims change at an instant. Nissan is my second favourite make to cheer for next to Porsche, so I'd dearly love to see them join the party.

[TF110]

I dont have the link, but Ordonez has said that running an lmp1 Nissan and winning Le Mans was his goal. Pretty sure that was in the recent months from some Gran Turismo academy deal. I expect he will be among the first confirmed drivers *when the car is announced.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

It will be interesting to see of the likes of Mark Shulzhitskiy and Reip are placed this year.

Yep I'm also intrigued by this. They need to be in full-time WEC P2 drives really if they want to make the grade. Certainly they need Le Mans drives.

I'd have thought Shulzhitskiy would have been a good fit for G-Drive/Rusinov but I'm not sure whether that relationship has come apart? Gazprom could be a good backer for a P1 programme so that's something to keep an eye on.

[deltawing]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

.... I believe the car is already in a CAD system somewhere near Wellingborough...

Why do you think is near Wellingborough?

[deggis]

Originally Posted by deltawing

Why do you think is near Wellingborough?

RML is there.

[JoestForEver]

And when does RML hook up with Nissan? (No offense, but surely they are busy promoting their S2000 TC1 Cruze now)

[Bandicoot17]

They've got the Deltawing and Zeod on their site so the links to Nissan are there.

[Pandamasque]

Of course. They also did the Juke-R project for Nissan. I'm surprised that it is Signatech who's running the works-supported P2 programme and not RLM, to be honest.

Originally Posted by Starfish Primer

How many laps would make the Lola Dryson? (2/3)?

Also conseder that Drayson's Lola had to go on a serious diet and still weighs just under 1000kg, and that's without an ICE part of the drivetrain! Adding an engine you'd have to shed what 400kg to stay under the minimum weight of P1? Sure, that isn't the newest and the lightest of chassis, but still.

In any case, as much as electric cars don't thrill me at all, it would be very interesting to see an educated estimate of the laptimes a proper range-extended electric could do at Le Mans with same fuel flow restriction as a regular ICE car would have.

[Jack Spratt]

Originally Posted by JoestForEver

And when does RML hook up with Nissan? (No offense, but surely they are busy promoting their S2000 TC1 Cruze now)

Remeber that it was RML who actually ran the Deltawing and not Highcroft, they used the RML Nissan engine.

[BanjoMaster]

As much as I, like many, admired the pluckiness of the Deltawing, I still cannot get past the looks. Same with the Zeod. If (leaving all the politics aside and putting my seldom-used optimist's hat on) it all comes to pass and we do see a Nissan LMP1 on the grid in '15, I hope it follows the more conventional design route and is a 'proper' looking prototype. I'm all for the small-capacity-petrol-plus-electric drivetrain thing as well, Nissan; just please come back with something with a rectangular footprint please!

[Machin]

Originally Posted by Starfish Primer

How many laps would make the Lola Dryson? (2/3)?

I've constructed the chart below from the 2012 Le Mans qualifying results... its only an estimate based on non-hybrid cars only, in which I have assumed that the average power output over the lap is 80% of maximum output. The Deltawing figure is based on the fact that the car managed a typical stint of 11 laps with a 40 litre tank (3.65 litres per lap), and the team declared a BSFC of 235g/kW.hr for their engine.

The dotted line is based on the LMGTE PRO, LMP2 and LMP1 performances.

The Drayson Lola times are based on a car weight of 1000kg+70kg driver and their website says that the onboard energy storage is 30kW.Hr which corresponds to just over 100MJ per ton for a lap of 3:20. I've then fitted the performance it to the dotted line. Remember this car has 860bhp onboard and in pure EV form doesn't weigh that much more than an LMP1, so the one lap performance isn't that surprising.... over two laps they only have half the energy to play with so would need to wind down the power correspondingly....



It would be awesome if the ACO would let the Drayson Lola do a demonstration lap at Le Mans to show what an EV could do....

[TF110]

Drayson do not have anywhere near the resources Nissan has. The latest and greatest from them is high tech, but Im sure the company that made the Leaf can do a bit better than Drayson. I hope we see some special tech from them.

[JoestForEver]

Thanks for the chart, but as far as I'm concerned, the chart illustrates that Deltawing uses energy per lap per ton about the same as P1s with much lower average speed, which means that it is of lower efficiency or way less competitive. Can you clarify it for me?

[Machin]

Originally Posted by JoestForEver

Thanks for the chart, but as far as I'm concerned, the chart illustrates that Deltawing uses energy per lap per ton about the same as P1s with much lower average speed, which means that it is of lower efficiency or way less competitive. Can you clarify it for me?

In "absolute" terms the Deltawing was quite efficient compared to a normal car, but in relative terms (I.e. relative to its weight) the car was very inefficient compared to a normal car simply because it was so slow through the corners.... now whether that was down to the "innovative" wheel layout, the chassis setup or the tyres we don't know.... we'll see when the Zeod runs whether it performs "on the curve" but the Deltawing hasn't managed to get anywhere near the curve all year in the ALMS despite now having run on 3 different tyres.

[Maelochs]

The second version of the DWing (the original was designed to race in IndyCar) was supposed to gain its edge through fewer poit stops over the length of an endurance race, so lap-to-lap, it could afford to give uop some speed.

Now we see that the latest iteration is not apparently more fuel- or rubber-efficient, so the slower lap times really hurt it.

However it won't be until the ZEOD runs that we will really know, because (it seems, based on performance) only Ben Bowlby can really build a DWing (though he is getting sued for doing so.)

Performance/weight is one metric; finishing fifth at Petit in only its second race is another. Possibly the original DWing might have developed into a real contender had not the money and Ben Bowbly gone away.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by LC2guy

Nissans 2015 LMP1 engine is a mith i am told reliably. I for one, believe.

So it will be the first pedal-powered Le Mans prototype? Talk about 'doing it differently'...

[JoestForEver]

Or diesel electric hammerhead-eagle-i-thrust garage 58?

[Maelochs]

Flinstone-style foot power, for the merchandising tie-ins.

[deggis]

Maybe it will have a minisized nuclear plant hidden in the back = it will produce its own energy.

[wewantourdarbyback]

Giant Scalextric.